Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8
By B1engineer
#1843408
patowalker wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:This chap has his licence and was wanting to hire an aeroplane, innit?


Yes, but the rental of permit to fly aircraft flown on a NPPL does not have the same track record as Part 21 aircraft flown on a PPL, so it is not surprising that rental conditions sometimes differ. I believe insurance rates reflect this, and explains the relatively high cost of renting aircraft that are cheaper to operate than one with a CofA..


Words completely fail me patiowalker :cry: .
I've heard rumours of a hierarchy within GA, and people looking down on the unwashed but really :shock:

What a disappointing outlook on NPPL pilots flying permit aircraft.
User avatar
By foxmoth
#1843410
Dave W wrote:Always assuming they know of the thread's existence, of course.
T
Otherwise Douglas Adams applies.


Yes, they could have their heads stuck in the sands. As someone else pointed out, any business that does not monitor social media is asking for trouble and I would be surprised if someone in the school had not pointed it out to them! It could also be that the instructor in question is keeping his head down and the CFI is thinking “can’t be us as we don’t operate that way”!
JAFO liked this
By patowalker
#1843415
Paul_Sengupta wrote:Yes Frank, you should know that microlight pilots are reckless mavericks who cannot be trusted to be let out on their own, and that C42s aren't real aeroplanes like the ones we fly and shouldn't be flown anywhere near their published limits!

(tongue firmly in cheek for those who don't realise!)


Some microlight pilots pass themselves off as real pilots, flying real aeroplanes. Unfortunately, the new microlight weight limit puts us right back where we started. :)
Paul_Sengupta liked this
User avatar
By flybymike
#1843417
Anyway, the customer is King, whether he is right or wrong!


you wouldn't last long in business. You'd be such a busy fool running after 'problem' customers the service to your good customers would suffer.


There are few greater pleasures in business than to disabuse a problem customer of his own perception of the importance of his custom to your business, :wink:
lobstaboy, Rjk983 liked this
User avatar
By MichaelP
#1843427
Always two ways of looking at such things.

Criticism is often a positive.
If it is given for a good reason.
Business owners should welcome criticisms, they may not act upon them, but knowledge is power!

The worst would be criticsm in the background, and behind a person’s back.
There is nothing more hateful than back stabbing, and I’ve seen too much of this in this business.

As CFI, running a school, I imposed the minimum regulation, and the maximum trust, and so far I have seldom been let down.
I refuse to impose the penalties deserved by the few onto the many. This often leads to a reduction of safety, and an increase in background crime!

Back in British Columbia the school with the most rules has the most accidents.
On my watch the school I set up had one incident where a Katana went off the side of the runway... No damage.
But all the usual incidents, taking off without a clearance etc... If you are training people expect some problems with various infringements. We mitigate these with the quality of our training, but there will always be a percentage.
Since I left my position I have watched the rules be increased at the school, becoming more in line with the bigger school, and there has been an accident or two... No-one hurt, but I do wonder at the relationship between more regulation and the occurrence of accidents.

As an instructor I have been a mentor to many people, seen them through to successful careers and/or lives.
You might read between the lines in a recent article in the competitor’s magazine...
Even here I get the occasional message for help and advice. I do my best.

As a mentor though, I do need my hands!
In spite of everyone else's ‘successes’ I don’t seem to have mentored myself very well. Everyone needs a mentor from time to time in their lives, me no less than anyone else.
It’s that second opinion, an alternate view.

Always look at everything from two angles.
A4 Pacific liked this
By A4 Pacific
#1843430
There are few greater pleasures in business than to disabuse a problem customer of his own perception of the importance of his custom to your business, :wink:


Just as there are few greater pleasures in life than to disabuse a problem business of their own perception of the quality of their business and take your custom to where it is more valued. :wink:

Both parties have choices. Only one party has money to spend.
IMCR, Ben K, JAFO and 2 others liked this
User avatar
By akg1486
#1843431
The number of posts in both the original and the follow-up threads indicates that the subject matter is of interest to many.

I fly in a club where the members can rent. The only extra currency rule we have is minimum one flight in an SEP in the last 90 days. We make no distinction between members: one single set of rules for how to refuel, wash, park the aircraft, etc.

A member involved in an incident, including near-misses, is invited to a meeting with the club where we talk through what happened. During my five years as president, we had three such occasions in a club with at the time 150 active pilots. No blame is assigned. As a result, the member may be required to practice something for an hour or two with an FI.

I think that's a fair practice accepted by all. Having one set of rules I believe is crucial for a social flying club to function.
lobstaboy, Paul_Sengupta, JAFO and 6 others liked this
By Bill McCarthy
#1843448
This “The Customer is King” poster picture thing (featuring a lion), invariably put up in employees offices, are placed for the customer to see, in the main, to flatter them. It does not necessarily mean that the employees agree with it on all occasions.
By G-JWTP
#1843486
flyingearly wrote:Thank you for all your thoughts and responses on this, both supportive and critical. I don't wish to pour any more fuel on the fire; I'm waiting to hear back from the school and have suggested a call to have a constructive discussion on this and hopefully put it to bed.

The only thing I wanted to say here is to pick up on one post particularly, from @riverrock - which is the only one I've seen that has made the following point.

Whatever you think of social media, internet forums etc, this is the ONLY place I have (currently) that I can immediately turn to for advice, conversation, brainstorming, debate or to pick brains, where I can easily get a range of opinions and build my knowledge and learning. I imagine that for most new pilots, they would say exactly the same.

It is easy to say 'speak to your school', but the premise of my OP was to get advice before I did so, to make sure I could have an informed discussion. There are very few places for people in my situation to turn otherwise. I have no 'mates' who fly, no friends at the airfield - indeed, the only person I know in general aviation IS my instructor and a few people running the school.

Yes, I have recently joined the LAA, but as yet in-person events aren't happening. There isn't much of a social scene at the airfields I fly from, or at least not that I have been able to get involved in. When Covid allows social events to kick off, I will be there.

But until then, please just consider that turning to forums like this is not an incendiary act to try and point fingers, slate organisations or put people on trial. It's a genuine attempt to get advice which - for the most part - tends to be helpful, volunteered freely and is backed by a collective many years (centuries?!) of experience! I have found my time on here to be immensely valuable and it is why I almost treat the forums as a sounding board, as I had done in this case.

Perhaps what is needed is some sort of new pilot mentor network that isn't on full view like a public forum, but still enables someone like me to ask the weird, wonderful (and awkward!) questions of those much more experienced, without the risk of causing problems if those questions lead others down a track that wasn't intended, accidentally. If anything like this exists, or if anyone wishes to volunteer to be my buddy, I would bite their hands off!


Where are you located?

G-JWTP
By Crash one
#1843489
Bill McCarthy wrote:This “The Customer is King” poster picture thing (featuring a lion), invariably put up in employees offices, are placed for the customer to see, in the main, to flatter them. It does not necessarily mean that the employees agree with it on all occasions.


Quite true.
By Crash one
#1843491
G-JWTP wrote:
flyingearly wrote:... If anything like this exists, or if anyone wishes to volunteer to be my buddy, I would bite their hands off!


Where are you located?

G-JWTP


That would locate the club involved very nicely.
“Don’t tell him Pike!”
Ben K liked this
User avatar
By flybymike
#1843517
Just as there are few greater pleasures in life than to disabuse a problem business of their own perception of the quality of their business and take your custom to where it is more valued. :wink:


Bovvered? :wink:
By oldbiggincfi
#1843636
MichaelP wrote:.
Places change, good to bad to good, it all depends on the people who create the culture.


Sadly Michael , flyingearly will NEVER experience the pleasures of the Breakfast Patrol.

Gone forever the Lure of free breakfast , not that I had one , but proved quite a decoy for those that got one by skittling your defenders with my Apache .

What's not to like in the 4 stripe Flying Heroes who are now in what was your position :boohoo:
MichaelP liked this
  • 1
  • 4
  • 5
  • 6
  • 7
  • 8