Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By leemoore1966
#1842086
G-JWTP wrote:What's the decode for the uplink?

On Software revisions after 2020/09, a message is sent from the Air to Ground indicating which and how many groundstations are in contact
so atom=3 indicates the aircraft can hear 3 or more ATOM stations (the number saturates at 3)

The other parameters are for internal use, for analyzing the specific ATOMS selected for rebroadcast from the GRID - think of a cellular network when handoff is made from one cell tower to another for your mobile phone.

Thx
Lee
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By peter272
#1842099
Lee

While you're here.

Are there any on-going developments to PAW you can tell us about. It would be interesting to get an idea of direction of travel of the system
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By russp
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1842191
leemoore1966 wrote:Its great to see more uptake, but please be aware of what you are seeing electronically versus what you are not seeing (depending upon your system)
Here is a 60km screenshot from the ATOM at Turweston just now 22/4/2021 8:17 UTC
Image

Emitter Keys to identify
Code: Select allO - Combined OGN formats (Flarm, FANET, OGN)
P - PilotAware
M - ModeS/3D Multilaterated
A - ADSB / DF17
a - CAP1391 / DF18


l/r - (local / remote last data ping)


Lee - that's me third from the top (407656) - I'm interested in why my reg isn't showing, not had any reports of it not being visible and FR24 tracks me perfectly with registration.
By DirkGently
#1842225
russp wrote:
leemoore1966 wrote:Its great to see more uptake, but please be aware of what you are seeing electronically versus what you are not seeing (depending upon your system)...
Lee - that's me third from the top (407656) - I'm interested in why my reg isn't showing, not had any reports of it not being visible and FR24 tracks me perfectly with registration.

Lee would know better than me. I think a snapshot like that is showing detection, more details will be filled in with more signals.
Mode S targets can present as bearingless before being multilaterated.
I had a look at an incident last week on our shareoplane, a Mode S target presented as a bearingless, then MLAT, then he descended out of coverage, then he got too close and scared them. Luckily they were PAw equipped with audio panel feed AND looking out
[edit]It's best to be holistic...[/edit]
By HansGruber
#1842227
gaznav wrote:Here is a CAP1391 SkyEcho 2 mounted on the side window in a RAF Sport Aircraft PA-28. More than sufficient for the purposes it was designed for and a pretty even pattern having flown a lot in recent weeks (it seems the more you fly, the more the gaps get filled in the polar diagram as expected):
That's grate. Does that analysis show how many <5km gliders you didn't see? Or How many Mode C and Mode S (still around 50% of the fleet AFAIK) it doesn't look for?
You don't even try to analyse how good the SE2 on a side window is, even though it's only trying to pick up some GPS transmitting targets.
The comment about flying around enough to fill in your Pilotaware Vector Polar graph speaks to the appearance of effectiveness rather than an attempt to understand (and therefore be able to improve) on actual performance.
Is the 'clever technology' (you said) of the SE2 antenna able to see through steel, aluminium and water now?
Does this help GA pilots who want to decide on the best EC for their profile choose the best cost effective kit for the next 3 years, or is it just promotion of 1 solution?
By HansGruber
#1842230
Watch 10s of this from here:

See and avoid (is also needed), EC detect as much as possible, do not rely on them to avoid you. Mode C / S is still 50% of the GA fleet , ADSB or its replacement CAN'T be mandated for at least 5 years (probably 10). Meanwhile EC detect as much as you can to enhance SA. Don't rely on them to avoid you, they might be poor pilots...
Poor sounds like PAw, fit a PAw, test it with the tools provided and make sure it works well.
Nothing comes close, and when it's set up right nothing comes close without you knowing about it
other products are available and may be more suited to your particular flying profile
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By TLRippon
#1842232
patowalker wrote:The top four may be of interest, but why would anyone want to know about aircraft more tjhan 28km away? Am I missing something?

It depends how you use the system.
When taking off on a thermal day, as soon as I’m at cruise altitude I zoom out the traffic display to get a wider picture of where the glider stacks are forming near the route. If necessary it’s a reroute, which benefits from being conducted as soon as possible.
28km is under 10mins flight time.
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By PropPeter
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1842249
Oh my days we've got three pages in and we're back to the bickering of VHS vs Betamax again, thought we'd finally finally got rid of that after what must be a world record of over a week without a thread containing such arguments

Snooze......
Rob P, kanga, cjrpaterson liked this
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By ls8pilot
#1842261
AeroDyn wrote:Chill out @HansGruber, he's probably doing the best he can


AFAIK the only system that allows analysis of Air:Air reception is Flarm, whereby you can put a log file through a post-flight analysis to show reception ranges of contacts (obviously no system shows what it did'nt see!).

Is there anything that will do the equivalent for PAW or SE2? The use of ground stations for analysis is valuable input, but not exactly what we are interested in....... Seems like something that could be maybe added to SkyDemon or similar ????
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By Paul_Sengupta
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1842274
Yes, PilotAware records all its data to the SD card, and this can then be downloaded to a tablet or PC whenever is suitable for further analysis. The's some software available which provides this analysis. You can also play back the tracks through Sky Demon to check the "picture" at your leisure.
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1842324
Well I had another outing with Skyecho2 today.

GPS stability seems to be not as good as iPad it dropped out several times on climb out from Gloucester which I've never seen on iPad.

It saw little or nothing around a busy Gloucester, it highlighted what I assumed were 3 gliders en route from Eland Valley to Sleap, it saw little or nothing around Sleap and didn't show the PA 28 that passed across our bows slightly above.

So I'll persevere but thus far I'm not overly impressed, it's pretty clear that either there's not a lot of ADS-B and FLARM transmission going on or Skyecho isn't all that good at receiving it, though in fairness all the contacts that appeared were a significant distance away more than 5 miles in all cases.
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