[Shoestring Flyer]

johnm,
I know you are concerned about Gliders like me so :-
Are you aware that in order for you to 'see' a glider with a PAW equipped aircraft, both you in your aircraft and the Glider and also the OGN ( Atom)grid station all have to be receiving a signal from each other all at the same time?
How often do you think that all those possible variables will line up?

[johnm]

johnm,
Are you aware that in order for you to 'see' a glider with a PAW equipped aircraft, both you in your aircraft and the Glider and also the OGN ( Atom)grid station all have to be receiving a signal from each other all at the same time?

Yes that's why I'm following my chosen strategy......

How often do you think that all those possible variables will line up?

I have no idea and I doubt anyone else has either. An uninformed guess would suggest they'd be seen at least as often as a radar service sees one

[riverrock]

hard to balance between getting direct FLARM reception (SE2 + nav app + licence) and getting rebroadcast FLARM, OGN, ADS-B (as well as direct detection) & Mode-S Multi-Lat (PAW) assuming that you are outputting ADS-B in some way separately.

PAW have hinted that their next innovation (AIR GRID) might be air to air rebroadcast of traffic, so if you are low level, blanked from the ground network due to (say) terrain, and another PAW user is high above you within sight of a ground station, you will still get all re-broadcast traffic.

[GrahamB]

Are you aware that in order for you to 'see' a glider with a PAW equipped aircraft, both you in your aircraft and the Glider and also the OGN ( Atom)grid station all have to be receiving a signal from each other all at the same time?

I think that's rather inaccurately worded.

John's aircraft and the glider have each to be in range of an Atom/Grid station, but not necessarily the same one, and the two aircraft don't exchange a signal between themselves.

Anyway - he bought an SE2 to see gliders, not PAW!

[Shoestring Flyer]

johnm,
Direct transmission with PowerFlarmFusion in/out coupled with ADSB and Mode S in, via external antennas coupled with your Garmin TX would be a much better option albeit more expensive.

[Shoestring Flyer]

Are you aware that in order for you to 'see' a glider with a PAW equipped aircraft, both you in your aircraft and the Glider and also the OGN ( Atom)grid station all have to be receiving a signal from each other all at the same time?

I think that's rather inaccurately worded.

John's aircraft and the glider have each to be in range of an Atom/Grid station, but not necessarily the same one, and the two aircraft don't exchange a signal between themselves.

Anyway - he bought an SE2 to see gliders, not PAW!

Yes I know he currently has SE2 but he is now leaning towards PAW hence why I wanted to make him aware of what was necessary in order to 'see' gliders.
Merely trying to be helpful, ...not argumentative like some on here!

[Cub]

@Cub

It would appear that several sites adopt and comply with the list generated by the FAA tool, thus offering a ‘one stop shop’ in a few cases.

What about those who don't, who I and others have already pointed out to you? What are you going to do about them (two of which are the BIG players) in your desperate attempt to prevent anyone seeing your registration (which is an output from ADSB, possibly even one from your previous company)? I suspect nothing because it doesn't suit your agenda to be shown that your continued whinging is just sour grapes and trouble stirring.

Calm down dear!

I have no requirement or interest in hiding my own registration or track but I do know some operators who feel it is increasingly important to them, especially with perpetuation of sharing platforms and curtain twitchers. I have established that the FAA have put some considerable effort into addressing the privacy issue and several of the well known providers utilise this list generated by the FAA tool and suppress the contents of that list regardless of an application from individual operators..

All I was ever trying to establish was whether PilotAware subscribed to this approach or individual requests, via its partners. You will see that it is has now been said that PilotAware do not actually share the data they receive with 360Radar for display in their subscription product. It would therefore seem my questioning of PilotAware was unfounded.

A little more research about the NATS offering reveals the following;

Does the app show every aircraft that is currently flying around the world?

No. Over the UK we show most aircraft using our radar data – on average 80% or more that fly in a day. We try to show all commercial airliners and as many small aircraft as we can. However, in agreement with the Centre for the Protection of National Infrastructure (CPNI) we remove a number of aircraft from display in the app. These typically include most emergency services and military aircraft. We also don’t show any aircraft that we have been asked to remove – be they privately or commercially owned.

Glad to see that another provider is taking a responsible approach to this issue.

[Cub]

PAW have hinted that their next innovation (AIR GRID) might be air to air rebroadcast of traffic, so if you are low level, blanked from the ground network due to (say) terrain, and another PAW user is high above you within sight of a ground station, you will still get all re-broadcast traffic.

That is indeed a very exciting concept.

[VinceGod]

Is this sharing Pilotaware data?

https://aircrew.co.uk/playback/groundst ... 1619983800

[Miscellaneous]

The best receive coverage is almost certainly a well installed PAW with external antenna.

Providing you have ATOM grid coverage.

[Crash one]

The best receive coverage is almost certainly a well installed PAW with external antenna.

Providing you have ATOM grid coverage.

PAW does not require Atom grid to function air to air picking up ADSB (SE2 etc) mode S bearingless and other Paws. Atom grid is a separate additional system to re broadcast otherwise not seen Flarm targets etc.

[peter272]

PAW does pick up bearingless Mode C/S contacts but it will show only relative height, not position. The grid is necessary to make that more usable.

[PaulSS]

PAW does pick up bearingless Mode C/S contacts but it will show only relative height, not position.

My bold. Just for completeness, it will also vary the bearingless target's circle colour to indicate an approximate caution level i.e. how close it is, based on signal strength and a complicated algorithm of 'stuff'.

That is all I am going to point out and hesitate to even post lest the usual brigade start pontificating on the use or otherwise of an estimated threat level.

[peter272]

Correct. But I've disabled the Mode C/S on PAW as having a contact appearing as a red circle with no idea where it is, isn't helpful in my experience

Upcountry where there are more aerials it is probably more usable

[Miscellaneous]

The best receive coverage is almost certainly a well installed PAW with external antenna.

Providing you have ATOM grid coverage.

PAW does not require Atom grid to function air to air picking up ADSB (SE2 etc) mode S bearingless and other Paws. Atom grid is a separate additional system to re broadcast otherwise not seen Flarm targets etc.

My point is that the same statement keeps getting churned out without mention of the fact PAw needs the ATOM grid for its full functionality. To make a statement such as John has without qualifying it is highly misleading.