Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By Cub
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845036
johnm wrote:@Cub 360radar is a subscription service as I'm sure you know. If that worries you then you might want to have a serious panic about this from NATS


My point is that most sites suppress the track and identity of a number of aircraft either proactively or upon request.

I was enquiring whether it is possible to do the same with data received by PilotAware and as I thought, but now seem to have been corrected, is not shared and displayed by 360Radar.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845038
My point is that most sites suppress the track and identity of a number of aircraft either proactively or upon request.


Only if you are a subscriber and control your fleet AFAICS.

We are back into fatuous medieval theological debate now, so I'll give it a miss I think.
Last edited by johnm on Wed May 05, 2021 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1845039
johnm wrote:@Cub 360radar is a subscription service as I'm sure you know. If that worries you then you might want to have a serious panic about this from NATS


This one uses radar data (so it says anyway) so in that sense doesnt fall foul of the WT Act. NATS are licenced to operate radars and to use the data they get from it. If you're bimbling around low down with only your SE2 and no transponder you wont show up on it.
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By Cub
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845040
johnm wrote:
My point is that most sites suppress the track and identity of a number of aircraft either proactively or upon request.


Only if you are a subscriber and control your fleet AFAICS.


It would appear that several sites adopt and comply with the list generated by the FAA tool, thus offering a ‘one stop shop’ in a few cases.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845041
[quote="lobstaboy"

This one uses radar data (so it says anyway) so in that sense doesnt fall foul of the WT Act. NATS are licenced to operate radars and to use the data they get from it. If you're bimbling around low down with only your SE2 and no transponder you wont show up on it.[/quote]

It uses primary and secondary radar as well as ADS-B AFAICS and I was happily watching traffic at 2000 ft heading into Gloucester a few minutes ago.
By SteveX
#1845049
Sorry to be a pain but there is one important question I havent had answered in this fascinating debate about a tiny box of electronics that may or may not help in some way. Is it ok to fly in the UK under 500ft (but not that close to a person, building etc) say over a beach and then climb above cloud past 12 miles territorial limit eg towards France (so outside the UK) with a IR(R) but where my license is currently at Gatwick for an additional rating, at night, with a passenger but where my last flight was 90 days ago but the time of departure to the minute meant it was 90 days and 2 minutes, with a PMD having had my class 2 refused (for no reasons on the pmd form) and then return to the UK mainland having not landed in France.

If so, which kneeboard is recommended for this flight.
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By PaulSS
#1845057
@Cub
It would appear that several sites adopt and comply with the list generated by the FAA tool, thus offering a ‘one stop shop’ in a few cases.


What about those who don't, who I and others have already pointed out to you? What are you going to do about them (two of which are the BIG players) in your desperate attempt to prevent anyone seeing your registration (which is an output from ADSB, possibly even one from your previous company)? I suspect nothing because it doesn't suit your agenda to be shown that your continued whinging is just sour grapes and trouble stirring.
User avatar
By lobstaboy
#1845058
johnm wrote:[quote="lobstaboy"

This one uses radar data (so it says anyway) so in that sense doesnt fall foul of the WT Act. NATS are licenced to operate radars and to use the data they get from it. If you're bimbling around low down with only your SE2 and no transponder you wont show up on it.


It uses primary and secondary radar as well as ADS-B AFAICS and I was happily watching traffic at 2000 ft heading into Gloucester a few minutes ago.[/quote]

What I mean is that I doubt NATS are getting their adsb data from a network connected to the internet of homebuilt, unregulated and unlicenced receivers run by hobbyists.

Don't get me wrong - I use PAW and I think it's great, but I'm under no illusions about it's likely reliability, performance or robustness as a system, both for air to air and for air to ground.
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845063
lobstaboy wrote:What I mean is that I doubt NATS are getting their adsb data from a network connected to the internet of homebuilt, unregulated and unlicenced receivers run by hobbyists.

NATs say that some data on their App comes from FlightAware. FlightAware gets its data from multiple sources, including network connected, homebuilt, unregulated, unlicensed receivers run by hobbyists.
They aren't controlling aircraft using the app though.
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By PaulSS
#1845064
@SteveX
Is it ok to fly in the UK under 500ft (but not that close to a person, building etc) say over a beach.............at night,


Sorry, but as you'll still be within the United Kingdom while flying over the beach you'll need to be > 1000' above the nearest obstacle (the beach), within 8km.

As it is not 'so', we are unable to recommend a kneeboard :D
User avatar
By ls8pilot
#1845069
SteveX wrote:Sorry to be a pain but there is one important question I havent had answered in this fascinating debate about a tiny box of electronics that may or may not help in some way. Is it ok to fly in the UK under 500ft (but not that close to a person, building etc) say over a beach and then climb above cloud past 12 miles territorial limit eg towards France (so outside the UK) with a IR(R) but where my license is currently at Gatwick for an additional rating, at night, with a passenger but where my last flight was 90 days ago but the time of departure to the minute meant it was 90 days and 2 minutes, with a PMD having had my class 2 refused (for no reasons on the pmd form) and then return to the UK mainland having not landed in France.

If so, which kneeboard is recommended for this flight.


I'm sorry it's completely impossible to answer this question on such sketchy information - for example what colour is your aircraft painted and will you be wearing a proper pilots shirt complete with epaulettes? :lol:
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By ls8pilot
#1845071
PaulSS wrote:@Cub
It would appear that several sites adopt and comply with the list generated by the FAA tool, thus offering a ‘one stop shop’ in a few cases.


What about those who don't, who I and others have already pointed out to you? What are you going to do about them (two of which are the BIG players) in your desperate attempt to prevent anyone seeing your registration (which is an output from ADSB, possibly even one from your previous company)? I suspect nothing because it doesn't suit your agenda to be shown that your continued whinging is just sour grapes and trouble stirring.


Surely this whole thing is a question for the Information Commissioners office? Especially if NATS are going to use FlightRadar data.... I'm tempted to write to them on the next wet day :)

In any case we seem to be getting rather a long way from a discussion of how EC adoption is going in practice ! :?

https://ico.org.uk/
johnm, leemoore1966 liked this
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1845081
It's interesting to see how much of the discussion is based on half truths, assumptions and prejudices rather than on evidence. Equally the idea of something being useful but incomplete doesn't seem to have percolated the minds of quite a few.

Sieving through the coherent posts the interesting issue for me is that EC on balance seems to have the potential to be about as good as a traffic service in class G i.e. get notified of most stuff, but not all, and with an incomplete picture for some targets. The best receive coverage is almost certainly a well installed PAW with external antenna.

My strategy has been to get a direct picture of FLARM targets alongside a traffic service and I think that this might still turn out to be a reasonable alternative approach. Time and experience will help with testing that as will trying different locations for the little box. The decline in LARS service might push me towards the PAW solution though.

The pachyderm in the room remains. How can drones safely integrate into this environment? I am coming to the conclusion that drones with TCAS and compulsory transponders for everyone is probably the only possible way forward.
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By lobstaboy
#1845083
johnm wrote:The pachyderm in the room remains. How can drones safely integrate into this environment? I am coming to the conclusion that drones with TCAS and compulsory transponders for everyone is probably the only possible way forward.


You're right of course. We are just being softened up at the moment - eventually when something has to be done it will be clear that the total mess things are in needs to be swept away and sorted properly. What we're doing now is never going to be long term.
johnm, ls8pilot liked this
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