Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By carlmeek
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841208
I accidentally infringed 2 days ago on departure from Blackbushe.

What a confusing piece of airspace this is. For me, it's the fact you're already in the CTR, so crossing out of the ATZ doesn't sound any alarms. Combine this with the noise abatement and you end up with no way out of Blackbushe on an easterly heading.

Traffic was busy at BB and FB, and by the time they granted me a southerly crossing, I was already well inside their CTR.

I'll know better next time - but I can see this biting a lot of people. Obviously I should have spent more time planning my departure, got a little complacent and it bit me.

In fairness, a very nice email from Blackbushe tower, and a promise of no penalty as it's new airspace, which is very equitable.

I wish there was a little corridor between BB ATZ and the CTR so you can 'escape' to the east whilst lining up a crossing with FB.

Image
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By skydriller
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841211
Hi Carl, it does look like there are alot if boundaries right there. Did you turn South- East into the CTR because of the "noise sensitive area" or did you plan to go south- east right away anyway? (Your screenshot shows 2x planned routes to the North- East). Your only other planning options there are to extend East over the noise area toward the Heathrow CTR, or go into the circuit from what I can see...

carlmeek wrote:In fairness, a very nice email from Blackbushe tower, and a promise of no penalty as it's new airspace, which is very equitable.


Would it not be Farnborough that files the MOR?

Regards, SD..
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By carlmeek
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841212
The pink line was the reversal of my arrival, designed to put me north east so I could chat to Farnborough and negotiate entry. The noise abatement made me turn right... and then plan on the hoof a bit.

Lack of planning I freely admit, but crappy design I think.
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841215
Your clearance presumably was to M3 Junction 4 to hold north of there until onward clearance (this is the standard clearance when departing to the East off 07). The M3 Junction 4 VRP is in SkyDemon so the clearance is pretty clear.

Iceman 8)
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By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841219
The real problem is with tossers who granted such a carp designed airspace. There should be standard routes with a listening squawk for VFR departures from both Blackbushe and Fairoaks, the current situation is just ridiculous.
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By Ibra
#1841228
That bit of airspace is complex and no easy routes where you can just sqwak & go? I understand sooner or later it will bite if one adds distraction & weather & performance, it's just a matter of time, an average of 200h for any pilot to f** it up being temporarily getting behind or misplanning?

Not downplaying CAS busts, some are serious and it's always pilot responsabiliy but part of the blame in few "hot areas" has to do with the underlying cra**y design & complexity and probably "the count of CAS clicks" we hear about in these is more the noise than the signal

Note that I never busted CAS but I am fully aware that my margins are very tiny in this regard even if I take load of planning time to look at CAS/OCAS flying and fly planned routes instead of freestyle departures or arrivals, but I honestly feel more relaxed flying low in mountain valleys than under LTMA airspace...
By chevvron
#1841243
johnm wrote:The real problem is with tossers who granted such a carp designed airspace. There should be standard routes with a listening squawk for VFR departures from both Blackbushe and Fairoaks, the current situation is just ridiculous.

Or better still, a requirement to QFG your departure airfield until you establish 2 -way with Farnborough (or Heathrow if going north)
That's what we used ask pilots to do years ago before CAS was established.
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841244
chevvron wrote:
johnm wrote:The real problem is with tossers who granted such a carp designed airspace. There should be standard routes with a listening squawk for VFR departures from both Blackbushe and Fairoaks, the current situation is just ridiculous.

Or better still, a requirement to QFG your departure airfield until you establish 2 -way with Farnborough (or Heathrow if going north)
That's what we used ask pilots to do years ago before CAS was established.

If you asked me to QFG I wouldn't have a FC what you are talking about. :roll:
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By chevvron
#1841248
GrahamB wrote:

If you asked me to QFG I wouldn't have a FC what you are talking about. :roll:[/quote]
Bet you still use 'QSY' though :twisted:
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By GrahamB
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841249
chevvron wrote:
GrahamB wrote:If you asked me to QFG I wouldn't have a FC what you are talking about. :roll:

Bet you still use 'QSY' though :twisted:

As it happens, no.
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