Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By foxmoth
#1843411
IMCR wrote:. An event in the middle of a routine requires quicker thinking than normal.


Personally I would say this is generally not true as the thinking about what to do for most events (certainly the events in this case) should have been done before the pilot climbs into the aircraft. Certainly there is pressure to perform the display but resisting that that should be part of being a display pilot!
By IMCR
#1843428
I think you are both missing my point. If you watch the video this is well covered, and yes it is all about having the plan in your mind before you fly.

As to the lead up we agree, my point was a landing in the sea may not have been the best option and my following the pre brief set out in the video would not have happened.

The maintenance and other issues are agreed.
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By Lockhaven
#1844028
Dominie wrote:
A4 Pacific wrote:Here’s another ‘enlightening’ view of this crash, if it’s accurate.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=2dJanFKT7ZI

So the pilot of this one has previously had two Avenger accidents! How does he get insurance?


It used to be the case in the USA that aircraft insurance was not mandatory, not sure about that these days, maybe someone with more up to date information could enlighten us.
By DirkGently
#1844322
Pilots didn't attend the briefing. Engine smoking before the display for ?20? minutes, ignored. Air Boss noted smoking engine but did nothing. 22! display circuits at 200', with smoking engine.
Engine quit, plane landed close to shore between swimmers, not 500' out as per safety brief. Pilots didn't attend brief.
Not a quick reaction incident IMO
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
By Maxthelion
#1844333
On just the value of the initial videos this was poor flying. Now we know more it's more like willful negligence.

I've flown in races, helped organise races, and plenty of aerobatic comps (never flown a display though). In my experience, if you don't turn up to the pilot's briefing then you don't get to fly unless the boss is generous enough to brief you one to one. I would like to think these guys wouldn't have got as far as starting their engines in the UK, given the tightening of airshow regs and oversight in recent years.
T6Harvard, MachFlyer liked this
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By Lockhaven
#1844377
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:@Lockhaven I suspect Kevin Laufer is looking for a new job..


I don't think we have seen the end of this just yet, there seems to be one hell of a **** storm building on the horizon.

Dan Gryder seems to have opened a huge can of worms for the whole airshow, warbird scene in the USA, it all seems to be very similar to the South Africa EE Lightning accident and the Shoreham accident were poor operating practices are the root cause.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
By A4 Pacific
#1844388
Dan Gryder seems to have opened a huge can of worms for the whole airshow, warbird scene in the USA, it all seems to be very similar to the South Africa EE Lightning accident and the Shoreham accident w(h)ere poor operating practices are the root cause.


“Poor operating practices” can also be termed the normalisation of deviance.

Big clues to this are when you hear phrases such as “we don’t do it like that here” or “we’ve always done it that way” or “what’s it got to do with you anyway?”

Anyone who turns a blind eye or doesn’t actively call it out is equally complicit.

Normalisation of deviance occurs and is insidious throughout GA.
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By Lockhaven
#1844401
A4 Pacific wrote:
Dan Gryder seems to have opened a huge can of worms for the whole airshow, warbird scene in the USA, it all seems to be very similar to the South Africa EE Lightning accident and the Shoreham accident w(h)ere poor operating practices are the root cause.


“Poor operating practices” can also be termed the normalisation of deviance.

Big clues to this are when you hear phrases such as “we don’t do it like that here” or “we’ve always done it that way” or “what’s it got to do with you anyway?”

Anyone who turns a blind eye or doesn’t actively call it out is equally complicit.

Normalisation of deviance occurs and is insidious throughout GA.


Thats a fairly bold statement about GA, any evidence ?

GA covers a wide range of flying activities from light SEP to long range bizjets with a huge variety in between, any area in particular that you are suggesting this happens.
By Maxthelion
#1844409
I've had instructors and students both tell me that they were taught it was normal and OK to fly to another airfield and shoot PFLs without the permission of the airfield owner or even announcing themselves on frequency. This has been going on for years and is in direct contravention of SERA and the ANO, as well as common sense or self preservation. This is just one example but I'm sure plenty of others can be offered up by other forumites.
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