Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Lockhaven
#1841339
classgee wrote:Very close to shore. Just luck there are no dead swimmers...


And if there had of been any unfortunate swimmers killed would it have been any different if he/she had made the forced landing close to a road in a residential area and killed people.



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Last edited by Lockhaven on Sun May 02, 2021 9:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841342
@Lockhaven

Be that as it may, and there but for the grace etc, but we'd all like to think that we would steer away from the puppy farm should something similar happen to us, and as we know from past reports some do at a great price to themselves.
#1841349
@Flyin'Dutch' what responsibility do the swimmers have for their own lives? How do you know they didn't decide to stay in the water to be under the aeroplane, or in fact only entered the water to get under it when they saw it coming? Maybe in the belief it was going to be a low fly past.

And why assume the pilot under the stress even knew they were there?

Why is public criticism of the pilot without empirical evidence of neglect acceptable? :?
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By flyingearly
#1841379
Sooty25 wrote:A busy beach with swimmers, to me, means he should have ditched further offshore to be clear of them.


I think this is the key point here. It is not unpredictable that a beach will have swimmers adjacent to it on a warm day.

It's clear in the video that the pilot is in control of the aircraft and lands it slowly close to the shoreline. An extra 25 metres out from the beach would have meant many fewer swimmers passing underneath, with minimal increase in risk to the pilot.

We rehearse EFATO all the time, but maybe it's worth thinking about what one would do if forced to ditch in the sea; maybe there should be a mnemonic etc to get people thinking about it.

Speed - keep it slow
Swell - land parallel to
Swimmers - keep clear of the first 25 metres of shore
Ships - ditch near one if you can
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By Lockhaven
#1841386
@Sooty25
A busy beach with swimmers, to me, means he should have ditched further offshore to be clear of them.


Here is a video showing the engine producing smoke much further out to sea, maybe like all of us would do he was trying make land while what sounded like the engine was still producing power only to find it failing completely close to shore, and only then discovering many people on the beach closer in, at which point there wouldn't be many options left for manoeuvring.


In this video you can see what seems to be the pilot pulling up slightly to avoid people in the water before ditching further down the beach line.



It has now been dragged out the sea, I don't think it will be flying again anytime soon as it looks to have been fairly badly damaged probably by the waves.

By Ibra
#1841393
Not judging the circumenstances but I fail to see pilot obsessions with forces landing in crampy runways, populated cities, full beaches and busy roads...instead of going for open water & empty fields, at least there will be no last minute zig to avoid a house, car, human or bikini and one will be guarateed there will be no legal follow up on him or his estate

I was not there so can't judge the guy intentions, maybe he felt it will be a 100% death ditching 100m into water? I doubt it would have changed anything to his survival chances given his nice text book ditching but 100m in water would have guarateed 100% life to other people, it was pure luck

Of course, one has to draw a line but this ditch was too close IMHO to kill other people with no added value in saving the pilot, it was about recovering the aircraft, I am sure the guy flew zillions of hours out of range well over open water far away from the beach & sand and he is surely skilled to cope with +100m ditch offshore, one has to draw a line and you gota do what you gota do !

The other thing is many details are not visible untill bellow 100ft, you have to "guess them" on your field selection way before field landout, maybe expected for flying gliders but probably too much airmanship to ask in a heavy 5T warbird with dead stick...

PS: me, another keyboard warrior hitting on FB videos from the comfort of his couch :lol:
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1841401
I doubt it would have changed anything to his survival chances given his nice text book ditching


I presume he had a crystal ball with him so he would know this would be a textbook ditching and he would be capable of getting out unassisted. :roll:
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By Ibra
#1841416
foxmoth wrote:
I doubt it would have changed anything to his survival chances given his nice text book ditching


I presume he had a crystal ball with him so he would know this would be a textbook ditching and he would be capable of getting out unassisted. :roll:



Indeed, I had no idea at what time he know he would walk away from it, maybe at 2000ft, 500ft, 100ft, 0ft? only the pilot knows that...

Still one has to draw a limit, ok it's an emergency but can I make that landing 10cm in water? or wheels down on the sand?

He got out by himself and did not hurt anyone, what to ask more? even got the dry Bose A20 in his hands and dry Yanks hat, talking about priorities: pilot & hat & headset in style :thumleft:

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By Bill McCarthy
#1841458
For all the world it looked to me that he was doing a slow “fly by” for the crowds on the beach and stalled it in - anyway it’ll all come out in the wash.
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