Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1840326
Rob P wrote:
SteveX wrote:Doing up bloody seat belts after use, what, just so the next person has to then undo them. What a load of tosh!! Don't do it in my car for the wife so why is that also a relic in some parts.


Because proper aircraft don't have inertia reel belts and leaving them randomly draped around the seats looks sloppy and is indicative of a sloppy attitude.

Rob P


The lap elements of inertia belts should be laid neatly and symmetrically across the seat cushions and not connected , not only for reasons given above but the double sliding of the buckle firstly to shorten it to connect it up then the sliding out again for the next wearer to get it on neatly triples the wear and tear on the lap straps and any slight fray of the edges of the belts rapidly becomes a fail at next COA inspection .
#1840338
Rob P wrote:
SteveX wrote:Doing up bloody seat belts after use, what, just so the next person has to then undo them. What a load of tosh!! Don't do it in my car for the wife so why is that also a relic in some parts.


Because proper aircraft don't have inertia reel belts and leaving them randomly draped around the seats looks sloppy and is indicative of a sloppy attitude.

Rob P


Indeed, a wise old RAF instructor in my very early cadet days was a stickler for this - ‘lad, one day these straps will save your life, you treat them with absolute respect at all times, without fail’ - can hear his voice now.

Leaving them all over the place will get them trapped in doors, canopies, moving parts and twisted up and they will get damaged and frayed. Not to mention the risk (especially in a tandem) of someone missing a loose strap when solo which causes a control restriction.
Rob P, JAFO, T6Harvard liked this
#1840340
PeteSpencer wrote:
The lap elements of inertia belts should be laid neatly and symmetrically across the seat cushions and not connected , not only for reasons given above but the double sliding of the buckle firstly to shorten it to connect it ...


Good point. Though there is no real need to shorten it in order to do up the buckle, it's just a question of keeping it neat and out of the way as @MattL has said. In the case of aerobatic aircraft you will be securing the passenger straps anyway before the next flight if unaccompanied.

Rob P
#1840342
Rob P wrote:
SteveX wrote:Doing up bloody seat belts after use, what, just so the next person has to then undo them. What a load of tosh!! Don't do it in my car for the wife so why is that also a relic in some parts.


Because proper aircraft don't have inertia reel belts and leaving them randomly draped around the seats looks sloppy and is indicative of a sloppy attitude.

Rob P


Perhaps the main reason to ensure that seatbelts are neatly done up is to ensure that if flying anything other than a single seater solo, that said passengers seatbelts isnt loose in the cockpit and able to jam an aircraft control?

Last time I looked im my car it may well have inertia reel seatbelts , but it certainly didnt have a set of controls on the passengers side even if the steering wheel is on the wrong side...

Regards, SD..
#1840343
skydriller wrote: ... but it certainly didnt have a set of controls on the passengers side even if the steering wheel is on the wrong side...


This is bollox.

I know for a fact your car is fitted with a Scandi Autopilot in the RH Seat :D

Rob P
#1840350
I have some sympathy with @SteveX ’s points, if maybe not with his methods of expression...

Checklists can easily become a mere litany of things not done properly, and things not on the checklist can be missed. This is particularly likely to happen when otherwise under stress, e.g. joining the circuit from an unfamiliar position and just parroting through BUMPFFICH without really checking things.

What do I do? Strict weather minima for myself; regular practice of PFLs (being based at an RAF airfield this doesn’t faze ATC at all, of course); if in doubt, trust your gut and if it feels wrong, land and sort it out.

This last rescued me when I was absolutely sure the PA28 I was flying was underpowered in the climb and sounded rough; I immediately declared a PAN and landed back after a (normal) circuit, but in the taxy back the aircraft seemed fine and I couldn’t see anything wrong after shutdown. I grounded the aircraft anyway and it turned out to have a small crack in one of the plugs - could easily have become a big crack.
T6Harvard liked this
#1840357
Now we are into the realms of OCD with belts and how they are left. To say straps left untidy is a sign of being sloppy is ridiculous. As is leaving them tidy for next solo person - where the responsibility lies with that PIC to ensure any empty seats have their straps sorted (if that type demands). It's an outdated Victorian stance. In fact I groan in having to undo straps I see done up on arrival at the aircraft. Personally I want them dangling on the floor so when I sit I then just have to reach down and connect.

How on earth finding them undone on arrival is a cause for concern is beyond me (let alone how they can relate to the OP question when our checklists have an entry 'harness secure').
TLRippon liked this
#1840366
One type I flew (aerobatic, five point fixed harness) if the straps were left you inevitably found they got stuck down the side of the seat and were a pitta to extract. So much easier to unclip them so you knew they were ready and in the right place when you sat in.

Funnily enough I have the same five point harness on my Caterham with quick release and I am afraid while I dont actually close the quick release I do lay the belt across the seat after last use. The passenger seat (which is used less) is always left buckled. There is a practical reason - they have quite a large metal quick release, which is notorious for damaging the paint and trim if left flapping around - and, well, I suppose old habits and all that.

Edit - do proper aircraft have single over the shoulder inertia belts? :lol:
#1840377
From a personal perspective, I do like to find the cockpit at least neat and tidy from the last user. Otherwise it can be a distraction from the primary task! Another unnecessary job to do. Sometimes it can look like the previous occupant used the Martin Baker system to exit! :shock:

OTOH someone once said to a very ‘dry’ friend of mine, “always leave the cockpit as you would wish to find it.” Her reposte was, “I’d rather like to find it attached to the front of a 747, but I don’t think that’s going to happen is it?” :lol:

There’s nothing wrong with being considerate to fellow users!
AndyR liked this
#1840395
A4 Pacific wrote:
What I am aware of though is that there are plenty of silent readers on the forums who may not know how to check the wheat from the chaff and hence the need to address stupid utterances.


A very fair point.

Better to play the ball than the man, though, I'd have thought.

There is at least one ‘outlier’ contributing a number of posts here.

Ooh, is it me, sir, is it me?

:pirat: :pirat: :pirat:
#1840412
Three vital habits that can save your bacon:

1) After all checks and the walkaround is complete. Enter the cockpit the long way round - in other words walk all the way around the plane and back to the entry point and do a last wide 360 as a matter of habit before starting the engine. One day you might find something that will either embarrass you and/or cost you money or worse.

2) Train yourself that if anything comes loose, door, engine cowl, baggage hatch, whatever... fly the plane. Enough people have perished out of simple distraction when this has happened to them.

3) Train your muscle memory to always gently unload the stick a little when banking at low altitude and airspeed (eg base to final turn). Use the trim. It should feel viscerally uncomfortable if you are so out of trim that you have to hold back pressure to maintain airspeed while banking near the ground.
T6Harvard liked this
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