Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1840006
Should the DfT also have something to say here concerning how Southampton fits into regional connectivity and into the existing aerodrome network?

A common issue with Southhampton for light aircraft was parking - why couldn't parking also be expanded?
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1840018
That'll be a relief in Alderney they were worried So'ton might close. Of course history could repeat itself. Flights to Alderney went from Hurn while Southampton was equipped with its current hard runway :-)
#1840069
There are no airspace changes planned to coincide with the runway extension: The extra 164m merely enables the existing larger-sized aircraft (e.g. A320) to viably operate all year round.
However, during the planning meeting, there was a query whether airspace to the north of the airport could in future be stepped lower so as to avoid the current "Winchester loop" which is necessary for IFR flights from the north to remain within controlled airspace when using Runway 20 (I think the response was "it may be looked at in the future").
Last edited by paulonils on Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
2Donkeys liked this
#1840086
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Maybe there is no need for an international airport every 30 miles in the South...


It is difficult to see why we need Southampton and Bournemouth. Bournemouth always seems to be massively under capacity, and although Southampton does better, Bournemouth has a very significant foot print into which it could expand. Links along the S Coast in this area between the two are also very good, and Gatwick is close enough to Southampton to cream off many of the passengers to the East (as is also Heathrow), whereas Bournemouth does have attractions for the West Country.

I suppose all the time there is a business model, but I know whenever I have looked at Southampton prices, Gatwick and Heathrow have usually been less exepensive and at least as convenient.
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#1840100
IMCR wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Maybe there is no need for an international airport every 30 miles in the South...


It is difficult to see why we need Southampton and Bournemouth. Bournemouth always seems to be massively under capacity, and although Southampton does better, Bournemouth has a very significant foot print into which it could expand. Links along the S Coast in this area between the two are also very good, and Gatwick is close enough to Southampton to cream off many of the passengers to the East (as is also Heathrow), whereas Bournemouth does have attractions for the West Country.....


While Bournemouth has a very significant foot print, Southampton will always has a very great advantage over Bournemouth being that it is very easy to get to, not only by road with the M27 right on its door step (only 1/2 mile from the motorway junction), but also one of the shortest Rail to Terminal Links in Europe less than 100 metres from the Station to the Terminal Building.

Bournemouth on the other hand can only be reached by road, A31/A338 with the final stretch to the Airport being over 2 miles of a single carriage way road B3073 from the A338 junction....
#1840103
RipAndTear wrote:https://www.dailyecho.co.uk/news/19223841.southampton-airport-runway-plans-approved-three-days-debate/

I know 'it's only 164 metres', but this is going to extend the centrelines and therefore the CTA and make it even more likely to accidently infringe with the current squeeze on airspace, isn't it?

Pin out, throw grenade, wait for the bang.

R&T


I'd suspect that the CTA will not be expanded, especially as larger/newer aircraft are supposed that have a greater climb/decent profile.

However the additional runway length will effectively increase the radius of the ATZ by an extra 1/2 nm within the CTA as the runway length would now be greater than 1850m....
#1840107
Hermitageclose wrote:
IMCR wrote:
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:Maybe there is no need for an international airport every 30 miles in the South...


It is difficult to see why we need Southampton and Bournemouth. Bournemouth always seems to be massively under capacity, and although Southampton does better, Bournemouth has a very significant foot print into which it could expand. Links along the S Coast in this area between the two are also very good, and Gatwick is close enough to Southampton to cream off many of the passengers to the East (as is also Heathrow), whereas Bournemouth does have attractions for the West Country.....


While Bournemouth has a very significant foot print, Southampton will always has a very great advantage over Bournemouth being that it is very easy to get to, not only by road with the M27 right on its door step (only 1/2 mile from the motorway junction), but also one of the shortest Rail to Terminal Links in Europe less than 100 metres from the Station to the Terminal Building.

Bournemouth on the other hand can only be reached by road, A31/A338 with the final stretch to the Airport being over 2 miles of a single carriage way road B3073 from the A338 junction....


Yes, some very fair points, but back to FlyingDutch these are issues that could be easily rectified if we wanted to reduce the footprint of commercial aviation - not that it will happen any time soon. :D

It wouldnt be so bad if either encouraged GA, but they dont, so both are effectively CAT only and provide no more general service to the community. (albeit to be fair, at least Southampton do offer is it now 3 (just 3) GA slots on a first come first served basis. Before COVID they had also just about stopped instrument training which they had engaged in for years.

With apologies, but neither Southampton or Bournemouth have really made any effort towards the GA community which I suspect both could.
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1840164
Larger airports I'm afraid will understandably prioritise those aircraft that need most of the length of its runway to make the most use of its capacity. This will not be light GA unless they have built an additional short runway beside the main.

The issue is what they should be doing when there's spare capacity available - and with the exception of Gatwick and Heathrow in normal times, there often is.

Southend is an example of how mixed-used operations can work. Southampton works well for light aircraft by day and for short term parking. Bournemouth slightly less so.

But many others like Aberdeen, Edinburgh and Stansted have not really bothered during their off-peak periods. It can be made to work, but will need better planning laws and regulation to do so.

This COVID time could be a rare opportunity to do some touch and go’s and other stuff at Heathrow and Gatwick, but sadly the red tape and gold plated costs involved has stifled the joys of aviation.
#1840177
malcolmfrost wrote:That needs keeping an eye on, it could drop the CTA over Popham to a base of 3500 and generate a real pinch point.

In my experience (having designed the RA(T) for multiple Farnborough Airshows between 1980 and 2008) Popham are 'flexible' enough to work with this; it's Lasham and the BGA who would be the more vociferous objectors.
Back in 1988, on a job interview with the CAA, I was told that when they extended the LTMA in 1982, they wanted to put CAS with a base of 3,500ft in around the Lasham/Popham area but due to Lasham's objections they didn't.
#1840322
chevvron wrote:
malcolmfrost wrote:That needs keeping an eye on, it could drop the CTA over Popham to a base of 3500 and generate a real pinch point.

In my experience (having designed the RA(T) for multiple Farnborough Airshows between 1980 and 2008) Popham are 'flexible' enough to work with this; it's Lasham and the BGA who would be the more vociferous objectors.
Back in 1988, on a job interview with the CAA, I was told that when they extended the LTMA in 1982, they wanted to put CAS with a base of 3,500ft in around the Lasham/Popham area but due to Lasham's objections they didn't.


Not enough credit went to those in 1982 that rightfully made a stand. Though Farnborough got their way under CAP725 in the last 18 months, Brize and Oxford's airspace rejection at a considerable sum of money (some of it taxpayers) shows that Southampton better think carefully about rational ideas in CAP1616. As one of the quietest airfields in Hampshire now, they'll have a lot to prove and as they now know, plenty to lose. Playing the "We'll close if we don't get what we want" card will not wash.