[CloudHound]

If the UK is to be the best place for GA then being able to attract students here for IR training is surely a key element.

If we can’t provide an aspect of approaches already widely adopted abroad that will hamper schools just when they need to thrive.

[PeteSpencer]

If the UK is to be the best place for GA then being able to attract students here for IR training is surely a key element.

If we can’t provide an aspect of approaches already widely adopted abroad that will hamper schools just when they need to thrive.

Quite apart from further reducing the options available for the annual revalidation process for IR holders who already struggle in certain parts of the country to find suitable and timely access to such approaches.

[kanga]

[and, of course, Staverton has many other attractions ]

[BoeingBoy]

If you're only flying these approaches in training then there will be someone sat next to the candidate or pupil who can ensure safety. Also, such minimas can easily be reproduced in a simulator so your argument doesn't hold up.

Yes, it's a nuisance losing LPV minima in the UK, but I suspect it won't be permanent, and the only people who are likely to be affected still have access to ILS at the present time so I personally think this whole issue is more about Brexit woes than real life politics.

[johnm]

I personally think this whole issue is more about Brexit woes

You may well be right because rejecting involvement in Galileo and EGNOS has implications in a wider range of applications than LPV....

[BoeingBoy]

From AOPA.

2nd April 2021 - EGNOS Safety of Life Service - It has been disappointing to read the news that the UK’s participation in EGNOS Safety of Life Service will cease on 25th June this year following departure from the EU and the end of the Transition Period. The Acting DCAs of Guernsey & Jersey wish to clarify the position on behalf of the Channel Islands, which is not impacted by this change. The ANSP for the Channel Islands has a direct Agreement with the European Satellite Services Provider (ESSP) Société par Actions Simplifiée (SAS) for this service, therefore LPV procedures post 25th June will remain available at Channel Islands airports.

[AlanM]

Yep, hence me saying that anyone can come up with their own EWA.

Interesting to see the Shareholders of ESSP and this recent statement:

https://www.essp-sas.eu/communication/news/essp-shareholders-sign-joint-statement-continue-give-full-support-egnos-and-european-pbn-regulation/

[PeteSpencer]

If you're only flying these approaches in training then there will be someone sat next to the candidate or pupil who can ensure safety. Also, such minimas can easily be reproduced in a simulator so your argument doesn't hold up.

Yes, it's a nuisance losing LPV minima in the UK, but I suspect it won't be permanent, and the only people who are likely to be affected still have access to ILS at the present time so I personally think this whole issue is more about Brexit woes than real life politics.

If this is aimed at me I’m afraid I tried , really tried, to get on with the FNPT 2 during IR training at an outfit down South .
I was fitted in at 730 am or 7 pm amongst the CPL sausage machine . I had a 240 mile round trip, wasted money on B&B and hotels and the Sim didn’t work : no brakes or steering so the (excellent and apologetic) instructor started each sortie from 2000ft . Then after I’d blown 5 kilo-squids and got nowhere the sim caught fire and I was sent home.

I told them to shove it and finished IR in an aeroplane.

IMHO sims are like hypnotism : there are people who cannot be conned into being hypnotised and there are those who can’t be conned into thinking that sitting in a clanky immobile Sim with dodgy dials is anything like real IMC
edit: grammar.

[PeteSpencer]

[quote="PeteSpencer"]
Deleted dunno what happened there

[Bathman]

I'd disagree Simms are excellent. Learn the theory, confirm its understood and then fly it for real.

As for the sausage machines they will love the loss of 3D GPS's approaches. It will be the LNAV for the GPS and 2D approach and ILS for the 3D approach. That will keep their pass right up for the Facebook generation with no need to fly an NDB approach on test.

A real problem is finding places to shoot instrument approaches. Your either not wanted or the place is closed.

Fortunately as part of the UK becoming the best place in the world for GA we can now use places such as Sywell.

Oh hang on......................,

[Flyin'Dutch']

Sims are great but I have to agree with Pete that they are an acquired taste, and not that of the stale cheese roll fighting its way back after a couple of sessions on the Chinook sim at Benson. A top experience otherwise.

[johnm]

I have never got on with Sims either. I find xplane and Microsoft quite good for de-rusting instrument scan and practicing procedures, but that's all...

[IMCR]

There are sims and sims and I have found the experience is as much down to the cost of the sim.

[PeteSpencer]

My problem was finding a Sim that could easily be configured as an SEP. At the time (13 years ago) there were only two in the entire UK.

It was an Altsim with wrap around front panoramic cockpit screen and on the face of it should have been fine.

It was let down by the six-pack which appeared to be a TV screen on its side,placed behind a lump of plywood, with the flickering dials viewed through circular cut-outs in the plywood.

Part of my problem was that I was so glad to be simming and not traipsing the streets of a south coast seaside town all day that I didn't keep an eye on the rapidly racking up costs.

Till it was too late.

[GrahamB]

My problem was finding a Sim that could easily be configured as an SEP.

There's an interesting article in the latest 'Instrument Pilot' about the value of sims for PPL SEP IR training. Non-PPLIR Europe members will have to wait three months before it's publicly accessible though.