Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839261
Can anybody please point me to the source of definitive notification that from later this year ( ?June) the UK IR fraternity will no longer be permitted to carry out PBN LPV approaches.?

As much detail as possible would be appreciated: As I believe it is all down to money, some idea of the costings behind this decision would be appreciated.
TIA

Peter :wink:
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839267
LPV approaches will not be available in the UK as we have not agreed a financial settlement with EU on the safety of life aspects of the EGNOS service.

Suitably equipped pilots will still be able to use LPV in the Channel Islands and elsewhere in Europe.

That's it in a nut shell.
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839271
How does disabling EGNOS work? By geo-fencing the UK FIRs?

It would also be interesting to see whether my car and phone sat nav would start to struggle to work out which of the parallel roads I'll be on when the accuracy falls back to the standard GNSS resolution.
User avatar
By xtophe
#1839278
James Chan wrote:How does disabling EGNOS work? By geo-fencing the UK FIRs?


Nothing physical change. Only paperwork/redtape/quality assurance.

But the LPV approach are removed from the AIP, so removed from the databases. So they are not proposed by the magic box and cannot be flown.
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839282
Basically the details are available here

What it boils down to is that we won't take part in any EU programs at any price. We are still involved in Copernicus but through ESA which is not an EU institution and we've reserved the right to walk away if EU influence appears to us to be stronger than we would like it to be.

We no longer have any involvement with Galileo or EGNOS. Happily those services are generally available if not switched off so as @CloudHound points out it's just a UK paperwork exercise that will result in Jeppesen removing UK LPV approaches from its database.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839287
Did I dream this but did not the UK play a major (financial) part in the development and provision of EGNOS?
By riverrock
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839290
I assume that the 2 RIMS stations based in the UK (the ground detection stations which provide data to EGNOS) are also being turned off? I ask as some RIMS stations are outside the EU currently.
If they are going to continue to provide data, then presumably EGNOS will still be providing accurate data to us - its just that we can't get paperwork for it? Is there anything stopping us continuing to use it? Do we need permission to use it? The data is being broadcast freely and publicly.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839298
What arrangements do the Swiss and non EU Scandi countries have?

Seems to me that there’s some ace international bitching going on here at the highest level.

Perhaps we should bitch back and unplug the RIMS stations in England and Scotland. :lol:
Sooty25 liked this
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839301
Certainly the Swiss and Norwegians have joined Galileo and EGNOS, our problem equates to a certain level of Westminster resident canines in feeding troughs I fear.....
User avatar
By CloudHound
#1839304
I assume that the 2 RIMS stations based in the UK (the ground detection stations which provide data to EGNOS) are also being turned off?

Surprisingly the answer is a guarded no.

We checked with ESSP who have answered
We come back to you regarding your question about the status of the EGNOS RIMS located in the UK.

Please be informed that, after confirming it with the European GNSS Agency (GSA), there are no plans to discontinue the two UK RIMS from the EGNOS operational system for the time being. However, please note that the EGNOS Working Agreements (EWAs) with UK ANSPs will be terminated on 25 June 2021. Further information can be found in the Spring 2021 edition of the EGNOS Bulletin.

We hope that you find this information useful for your application. Should you need any further assistance or clarifications regarding EGNOS and its services, do not hesitate in contact us again.

It may be that a late-running upgrade to EGNOS V.3 will require new RIMS so they could leave them be until then.
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By PeteSpencer
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839326
Y’know, on reflection with the type and amount of flying I now do I’m not gonna miss it one iota . ILSs for IR reval from
now on ! :wink:
Stampe liked this
By johnm
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1839366
[*]
PeteSpencer wrote:Y’know, on reflection with the type and amount of flying I now do I’m not gonna miss it one iota . ILSs for IR reval from
now on ! :wink:


You might not miss it but the opportunity for a wide range of airfields to get ILS equivalence at modest cost is no longer available, so much for the “Best place for GA “ bullshit :twisted:

At least I can still get into Alderney in the clag when things open up again :roll:
Katamarino liked this
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