Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Flyingfemme
#1838443
Stop pussyfooting around. Introduce her to us properly and enroll her in a PPL course. When she gets close to first solo she will know if she wants to continue. If she doesn’t, she will know enough to be really useful in a pinch. If she does, you’ve halved your “cost” of flying at a stroke. Win-win.
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By TopCat
#1838453
Flyingfemme wrote:Stop pussyfooting around. Introduce her to us properly and enroll her in a PPL course. When she gets close to first solo she will know if she wants to continue. If she doesn’t, she will know enough to be really useful in a pinch. If she does, you’ve halved your “cost” of flying at a stroke. Win-win.

I don't think it's a trivial ask, especially for a low hours PPL student having done her hours in the left hand seat, to suddenly change sides and be expected to land it safely from the other side.

The look is all different, all the switches and instruments are in different places relative to where you sit, and the coordination involving landing with the other hand may very well not come at all naturally.

I may be much less well coordinated than average, but when I taught myself to fly my aeroplane from the other side, it was far from easy. It wasn't too bad if the air was smooth, but if it was gusty it was another matter.

My technique now, as I've been out of practice on the RHS for a long time, is just to close the throttle and switch back to my left hand for the last 20 feet or so. Then the coordination is natural again, and it's just the different perspective to deal with, which isn't all that hard.

Obviously a proper PPL course is great if there's genuine interest there, but to land safely from the 'wrong' side, especially if the worst has happened and hubby or wifey is sitting there conked out next to you, should IMO definitely be practised.
By Hooligan
#1838461
TopCat wrote:I don't think it's a trivial ask, especially for a low hours PPL student having done her hours in the left hand seat, to suddenly change sides and be expected to land it safely from the other side.

The look is all different, all the switches and instruments are in different places relative to where you sit, and the coordination involving landing with the other hand may very well not come at all naturally.


I did a fair bit of unofficial right hand seat flying in 150s and 172s with a chum, including several approaches and landings - when eventually I had a trial lesson in a 152 with an instructor, I had no problem at all flying it from the left hand seat instead. However, as I've mentioned in a previous thread, flying gliders with a stick instead of a yoke does give me a problem being a lefty - flying with the right hand on the stick did not come easy. If I can I will get back to it again and persevere...
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By lobstaboy
#1838463
Some people find flying from the other seat a real problem, others don't. I know an instructor who says he can't fly from the left seat any more.

I think this could be important for a safety pilot - being on the 'wrong' side in a crisis could ruin everything. Do it right, get Mrs Farmer on a proper safety pilot course.
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By TopCat
#1838468
Hooligan wrote:I did a fair bit of unofficial right hand seat flying in 150s and 172s with a chum, including several approaches and landings - when eventually I had a trial lesson in a 152 with an instructor, I had no problem at all flying it from the left hand seat instead. However, as I've mentioned in a previous thread, flying gliders with a stick instead of a yoke does give me a problem being a lefty - flying with the right hand on the stick did not come easy.

This is interesting, and goes to show how different we all are.

I've done a small amount (about 15-20 hours) of flying in aircraft with a stick (Pitts, Decathlon), and as a lefty myself, had no problem at all flying with my right hand.

Whereas with a yoke I find it a lot more difficult in the wrong hand. Maybe it's because the stick is left-right, whereas the yoke is more rotational. Dunno.

Clearly it's not possible to generalise, but I think that reinforces my point, which is really that someone contemplating learning enough flying to be able to get it down in what would be a very stressful situation should do the learning in the seat they want to be prepared for - or at the very least discover that they can swap seats without it becoming suddenly much more difficult.
By Hooligan
#1838472
I mentioned above Val Singleton's course with OATS above, she definitely did it all in the right seat which obviously makes sense.

It probably does make of a difference to have been interested all your life and to have sat up and taken note - I flew umpteen times with my Dad as a small boy in various light aircraft and gliders and no doubt some of that rubbed off. I recall the first time I handled the controls of a C152 (with my driving instructor!) a decade later and it felt like we were balanced on a pin head...
By SteveX
#1838549
skydriller wrote:@SteveX , exactly what you are refering to as being illegal?


Manipulation of the controls by a non-pilot whilst sat alongside a ppl who is NOT an instructor. It's basic air law, prohibited. Whether non-instructors want to go off and teach the other half to try and land it is another matter, nobody would ever know of course.
By riverrock
#1838554
SteveX wrote:
skydriller wrote:@SteveX , exactly what you are refering to as being illegal?


Manipulation of the controls by a non-pilot whilst sat alongside a ppl who is NOT an instructor. It's basic air law, prohibited. Whether non-instructors want to go off and teach the other half to try and land it is another matter, nobody would ever know of course.

You'll need to quote that law - because as far as I know - that's hogwash.
The person / thing manipulating the controls is doing so at the direction of the pilot. Its just using a person as an auto-pilot instead of a piece of technology.

Now on commercial operations there are other rules which would stop this happening - but not on private flights.
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By Rob L
#1838560
SteveX wrote:
skydriller wrote:@SteveX , exactly what you are refering to as being illegal?


Manipulation of the controls by a non-pilot whilst sat alongside a ppl who is NOT an instructor. It's basic air law, prohibited. Whether non-instructors want to go off and teach the other half to try and land it is another matter, nobody would ever know of course.


SteveX, you are not quite correct on that issue. Show us the law that says a PPL can't let a non-PPL have "a go at the controls".

To "let a non-pilot have a go" is perfectly alright. To allow that flight to contribute towards a non-pilot's PPL is of course not correct unless the Commander has an instructor rating of whatever class, and carried out through an Approved Training Organisation (ATO) or whatever scheme is in favour this month.

I wonder if that's where your confusion is coming from?

Rob
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By flybymike
#1838603
SteveX, you are not quite correct on that issue. Show us the law that says a PPL can't let a non-PPL have "a go at the controls".


My first flying log book had a column entitled “passenger flying.”
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By skydriller
#1838607
SteveX wrote:Manipulation of the controls by a non-pilot whilst sat alongside a ppl who is NOT an instructor. It's basic air law, prohibited.


I dont think it is, I fly GA, not airliners. I am the pilot in command and if I see fit to engage my Scandi Autopilot :wink: on a long trip, that is entirely my decision. Similarly letting anyone else "have a go"... Quite frankly its one of the most enjoyable things you can do with a passenger. :thumleft:

Regards, SD..
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By GrahamB
#1838614
Part NCO.GEN.105 (f) refers:

During flight, the pilot-in-command shall:

(1) keep his/her safety belt fastened while at his/her station; and

(2) remain at the controls of the aircraft at all times except if another pilot is taking the controls.


When I’m instructing, I might never touch the controls during a flight, but nevertheless I remain PIC for the duration. I don’t have to be manipulating them in order to remain at them.
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