Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1837706
A different side to all the money you spend on aviation became clear to me during the week:

- I paid a guy for a parts aeroplane, he donated all the money to charity.
- I paid a youngster to clean it, he bought 40L of fuel at another airfield.
- I sold the engine, the buyer is getting an overhaul with the engine shop we use.
- Buy another aeroplane, the seller pays their due maintenance and parking.

The loop is endless, just looking at the payment trail. In what can be an expensive activity it is worth bearing in mind that the money you spend is rarely going to buy someone a new Rolls Royce anywhere along the way. For me, it makes it much more bearable knowing whatever you spend has a multiplier effect.
Grey Beard, Dave W, T6Harvard and 5 others liked this
#1837913
This is why airports should be looked at more broadly. The debate has been opened at Gloucester recently as investment to resurface runways is needed.

Actual flying on its own is not very cost effective, but the side effects on skilled employment in engineering and training, the opportunity for small business in business parks around the periphery all make a significant economic contribution which housing estates tend not to. Housing estates are often dormitories for folk contributing to economies elsewhere and services for housing estates are very costly and council tax doesn't go anywhere near covering it.
#1837916
Sooty25 wrote:.. the tax man and any payment processors involved .. both erode the initial amount ...


I'm not sure about the 'payment processors' (but I'm sure that their bosses and staff have families to feed :roll: ), but society depends for many of its essential functions on the 'taxman', so is this 'erosion' or 'another benefit' ?
#1837993
The loop is endless


Indeed and it is also why larger airports with overpriced mandatory handling fees should think of the effects and consequences to the wider economy and society when they discourage GA movements even when there are plenty of available slots free.

And similar with smaller airfields where the owners want to close it down for good.
Spooky liked this
#1838193
kanga wrote:
Sooty25 wrote:.. the tax man and any payment processors involved .. both erode the initial amount ...


I'm not sure about the 'payment processors' (but I'm sure that their bosses and staff have families to feed :roll: ), but society depends for many of its essential functions on the 'taxman', so is this 'erosion' or 'another benefit' ?


My point was, the loop can't be endless as the initial lump is always having bits chipped off it.
#1838203
James Chan wrote:
The loop is endless


Indeed and it is also why larger airports with overpriced mandatory handling fees should think of the effects and consequences to the wider economy and society when they discourage GA movements even when there are plenty of available slots free.

And similar with smaller airfields where the owners want to close it down for good.

Which is fine when the aiport is owned by the government. Doesn’t help to pay the bills for private enterprise. Another reason why airports (other than grass strips) should be considered as infrastructure and paid for by the local authority.
Although Staverton is owned by local authorities and still has a private enterprise mindset............
#1838230
Sooty25 wrote:
kanga wrote:
Sooty25 wrote:.. the tax man and any payment processors involved .. both erode the initial amount ...


My point was, the loop can't be endless as the initial lump is always having bits chipped off it.


I suppose once the VAT and the fuel duty is chipped off what we spend on fuel and the airfield has actually paid the supplier , it leaves very little to keep going round the loop.

Most things we pay for in Aviation remind me of the money grabbing penny arcade slider machines where there is a hidden trough that syphons off, almost unseen, a large percentage of the coins that are put in the machine.

I know we have to help pay for central guvnmint expenditure but it does seem that aviation is unfairly disadvantaged, with little of what we pay in Insurance Tax, VAT, Fuel Duty etc making it back into light sport aviation.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1838292
In both cases you are "buying entertainment" and we don't have to engage in either.

The seaside slider is much better value in the depths of winter, when the payout rates are set higher. They tend to vary between 75% and 95% depending on season. When the daft city folk and their screaming kids are down for their week in a caravan, its obviously 75%!
Being a "arcade mechanic" was a sought after summer job around here, when I was a teenager.

In the arcade we now occasionally frequent in the winter, when the wife and her mate have an urge to win a 2p teddy, the gifts are closer to the front and the guides adjusted for more returned coins. They even provide mugs of tea and coffee. The girls will demolish £20 each in return for an arm full of cheap teddies, while my mate and I will loiter drinking free tea and talking cars/aeroplanes. Cheap night out of the house.
#1838306
This is really about disposable income and having somewhere to spend it?

Building more and more housing in over populated areas creates an over supply of people for the jobs available so many of those people are unlikely to have an oversupply of income to spend in the local community or elsewhere. What they do spend is likely to be local basics for living. The local pub in a housing estate is unlikely to get many visitors from outside the local community.
The local leisure/entertainment facilities will never be able to cope with everyone wanting to visit at the same time so only provide for a small subset of that population and the others have not a lot to do which in some cases leads to mischief and the area looks less appealing to visitors.

The larger towns and cities will have more variety and quantity of leisure/entertainment facilities and a wider pool of people to draw from. They still only cope with a small subset of that population, however there is more going on and more to do generally so they are likely to attract visitors from outside the area which is a money supply from outside the local area. It will have better transport facilities to get people in and out, typically cars, taxis, buses, coaches, railway, There will also be more places for people to stop over for the night or longer, which could be locals or visitors (leisure or business) from outside the area. Again its visitors effectively spending more money than the locals would, although the house prices reflect the nearby facilities, so some local people will live a bit further away to get a balance between house price and facilities that are not too far away. Business rates are a function of footfall too, which ought to be income the council gets to spend on the local community projects.

Now consider locations of airfield. Age might be a factor, but some people that fly want peace and quiet and rural and offering a bite to eat, and at the other extreme some want something "more" to do when they get there (including off-airfield). This suggests there needs to be a balance between airfields in the middle of nowhere and airfields close to the beaches, the bigger towns and cities..... the so called (mythical?) national infrastructure of airfields.

After the covid restrictions on doing anything for so long, many people want something to do or go and see and experience. Airfields are an enabler for those with the disposable income to go out and spend it.

Perhaps it is an opportunity for GA to re-vitalise itself within the UK whether that be visiting places or other air sports. Airfields need to play an active part in this to raise awareness to the pilot and tourist community of their facilities, how welcoming they are, how easy it is to get to the beach or whatever "attractions" there are.
#1838317
Flyingfemme wrote:..
Although Staverton is owned by local authorities and still has a private enterprise mindset............


although, reportedly, more so since the end of the MP3 regime era (which was also, coincidentally, about the time I sold my last share) :?