Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1837071
Shirley the point is that if you’re flying anywhere with on/off controlled airspace the onus is on you to check the notams for precise times: I imagine most people would do this and I guess as per OP @TopCat would find himself pretty much in a minority.

An exception I guess would be the imposition of an emergency TRA following ,say, a plane crash when the CAA would prolly take the pragmatic view of any GA in the area at the time.

Unless of course they were press helicopters :wink:
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#1837078
TopCat wrote:I know I could have routed Stoney Cross - Beaulieu below 2000', but it's so wooded around there that I don't really fancy it that low.


Paul_Sengupta wrote:It really isn't that wooded.


TopCat wrote:Well agreed, it's not all trees.


I suspect Paul's point was that few, if any, of the trees constitute a hazard to flight at 2,000 ft

Rob P
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1837082
Rob P wrote:
TopCat wrote:I know I could have routed Stoney Cross - Beaulieu below 2000', but it's so wooded around there that I don't really fancy it that low.


Paul_Sengupta wrote:It really isn't that wooded.


TopCat wrote:Well agreed, it's not all trees.


I suspect Paul's point was that few, if any, of the trees constitute a hazard to flight at 2,000 ft

If so, that was approximately the altitude it went over my head at :)
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By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1837085
PeteSpencer wrote:Shirley the point is that if you’re flying anywhere with on/off controlled airspace the onus is on you to check the notams for precise times: I imagine most people would do this and I guess as per OP @TopCat would find himself pretty much in a minority.

Could you clarify the sense in which I'm in a minority here? You say that most people would check the precise times, and indeed I did.

So I'm not sure what you mean.
By TopCat
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1837088
akg1486 wrote:
TopCat wrote:
James Chan wrote:If you can wipe the tears of laughter from earlier and re-read my post, you'll find that I essentially described such a mechanism in full working order. But outside UK airspace. :D

Yes I know. FTAOD, I wasn't laughing hysterically at you at all, rather at the ridiculous state of affairs in the UK.
#1837107
townleyc wrote:When coming online again, would they not issue an all stations broadcast?

KE

Yes and at the same time, the pilot should broadcast their position on the notified transit frequency every few minutes; it will be picked up and recorded so the pilot can prove thay had tried to call with no success.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1837112
Where is that written down, @chevvron?

If Class D is closed, it's Class G. Surely not some uncertain intermediate where you have to check and CYA at regular intervals!
#1837114
TopCat wrote:
PeteSpencer wrote:Shirley the point is that if you’re flying anywhere with on/off controlled airspace the onus is on you to check the notams for precise times: I imagine most people would do this and I guess as per OP @TopCat would find himself pretty much in a minority.

Could you clarify the sense in which I'm in a minority here? You say that most people would check the precise times, and indeed I did.

So I'm not sure what you mean.


Simply that if you are in an airspace which has notified hours of activity that becomes active while you’re in it as you describe in the OP, the majority of folk would have seen the notams and wouldn’t be there in the first place .
Hence you would be in a minority :wink:
#1837151
If the pre-flight planning shows the aircraft wont comfortably be out the other side of the airspace at the published time the CAS becomes active again, then surely that is just asking for trouble and wont help the pilot defence at all. Wind not as forecast is no excuse for cutting it that fine on the timings.

Send em to The Tower (of London, FIR) :wink:

... or low level across a live firing range that becomes active (in accordance with the published times of activity) whilst the aircraft is still crossing the airspace and see if the pilot learns something from the stray bullet hole through the wing? :twisted:

... for repeat offender they could put the stray bullet hole through the engine cowling!

Is that what they call Just (in time) Culture? :think:
:wink:
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1837153
Or ATC, on opening, could make a blind call on the published frequency to any traffic now in the airspace and provide a service to a direct vacating of the airspace (or whatever is requested and available).

After all, they aren't going to open seconds before a CAT departure or arrival arrives airborne in that chunk of sky.

It wouldn't surprise me if that's what happens in practice - entrapment isn't to anybody's benefit.

But the fact we are talking about this is symptomatic of the unfortunate breakdown of trust that has arisen and been warned about for some time. :(
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#1837161
Again: what @Dave W describes is how I've experienced it. There should be enough time for ATC to clear the traffic and pilots should be prepared to comply when the airspace opens. If ATC distrusts the pilots (and/or vice versa), all you have is strict interpretation of the rules and immediate cries of "Infringement!". Nobody wins and trust goes down.

Any ATCO here to give their side?
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