[kanga]

BBC gist of AAIB report:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-g ... e-56475345

[Dave W]

AAIB Report itself - a sobering read.

[VRB_20kt]

Sobering indeed.

Apart from fitting a CO detector, what can we learn though? And has anyone ever noticed the disc on a "Dead Stop" change colour in flight? I can't believe it's in anyone's scan!

I'm sure I'm not alone in having been in a SEP and getting an occasional whiff of exhaust. Clearly in this instance, there was no instinct to get some fresh air despite insidious tiredness. So are we destined to see this type of accident repeated?

[cotterpot]

I think there is/was a thread re CO monitors fairly recently.

[nallen]

Apart from fitting a CO detector, what can we learn though?

To check that the firewall sealing is in good condition, perhaps?

(I fly something with the same engine/exhaust/cabin heater setup -- will be checking the joints carefully …)

[rf3flyer]

Apart from fitting a CO detector, what can we learn though?

To check that the firewall sealing is in good condition, perhaps?

(I fly something with the same engine/exhaust/cabin heater setup -- will be checking the joints carefully …)

You have a heater?

Next time I fly I might take my recently purchased Fire Angel to see what's what.

[oldbiggincfi]

Apart from fitting a CO detector, what can we learn though?

To check that the firewall sealing is in good condition, perhaps?

(I fly something with the same engine/exhaust/cabin heater setup -- will be checking the joints carefully …)

Not too different to the VW Beetle set up !

[gasman]

Apart from fitting a CO detector, what can we learn though? And has anyone ever noticed the disc on a "Dead Stop" change colour in flight? I can't believe it's in anyone's scan!

Actually I do!

Over the years I’ve modified my IMC checks (OAT/icing on wings/pitot heat/vacuum pump/MSA) by adding ‘ammeter’ and ‘CO monitor’.

[flyingearly]

Couple of bits to call out.

First, he was seriously injured - sufficiently so that it required an air ambulance to attend. And yet, it took 37 minutes for an ambulance to arrive - pretty shocked/saddened by this!

It's interesting to think how one in a similar situation might have responded - or not, as the case may be. The bit I find interesting was that in the downwind position, 'all was normal', but the pilot was incapacitated by the time they had turned base/final: it's such a short period of time to go from being well to passing out. I wonder if there were actually any signs prior to the incident that might have provided clues: was the circuit regular, or awry, for example? Were radio calls clear?

I guess what I'm saying is that I had always thought something like CO poisoning was gradual and that your abilities become degraded gradually; here it seems that the pilot's competence dropped very swiftly, in the space of a minute or so, which is very scary and eye-opening.

Finally, linked to some of the other comments above, CO monitors seem ripe for confirmation bias. I'm approaching 40 and in my life have seen the 'traditional' CO monitor only twice: once was in my nan's house above her gas fire and the other time is in the C42 I rent. No-one has actually shown me how they work or what I should look out for, which sounds so unbelievable it's almost laughable. I don't think I ever check it, or would even know what I would expect a bad result to be - does it turn dark, or blue, or green, or what?

[nallen]

You have a heater?

In the K16 I fly -- our RF3 retains its Spartan originality.

[tomshep]

What do we learn?
You are FAR more likely to get deadded by CO than MAC so £20 spent on a FireAngel is a better investment than £400 on an EC device. You'd be stupid not to.

[Charliesixtysix]

I recall the LAA putting out a request for volunteers to conduct testing of CO detectors a year or so ago. I responded, offering to help but heard no more of it- anyone know if it happened?

[riverrock]

I have fire angels, with the screen showing buildup and PPM, in my two group aircraft.
Do get one which conforms to at least BS EN 50291-2:2010 (note the "-2" - which means its designed to be portable, tested against vibration and the like).
The previous one we had didn't have a screen - it went into a pre-alarm ( a regular chirp) before going into full alarm. We had intermittent issues in the Jodel during climb, eventually tracked down to fuselage seals. The screen lets you know how much you need to worry. The biggest risk is to someone will do a precautionary landing in a field and bend themselves or the aircraft for what is essentially a benign reading.
35ppm
The maximum allowable concentration for continuous exposure for healthy adults in any 8 hour period, as recommended by the Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA).
200ppm
Slight headache, fatigue, dizziness, nausea after 2 - 3 hours.
400ppm
Frontal headaches within 1 - 2 hours, life threatening after 3 hours.
800ppm
Dizziness, nausea and convulsions within 45 minutes. Unconsciousness within 2 hours. Death within 2 - 3 hours

[russp]

I've been finally persuaded by this report that it's time to take some real action about this danger and so have sourced one if these https://aithreaviation.com/products/ait ... eld-ex-1-0 to feed my AFIS and show CO on my engine management screen and give me pop up and audible warnings. I figured if it was worth doing it was worth doing properly. Total cost about the same as a (the) cheap EC device. And my aircraft takes the cabin heat off the rad which is significantly in front of the exhaust manifold, probably overkill but it's another serious risk addressed.

[riverrock]

I assume you'll mount this on the front of your panel? Behind a panel probably isn't representative enough of cabin airflow to detect CO in the cabin? If behind the panel, this would primarily detect CO if it has come directly through the firewall. Our panel has its own air intakes to cool instruments, and our heater (taken from exhaust shroud) aims at feet and windscreen, which is probably our biggest risk, so air can be fresher behind the panel than in the cockpit.