[flybymike]

PR BS at it's very best.. Nothing mentioned about the incident (although probably filmed just before the incident)

Long before the incident.
Filmed at Goodwood FOS, probably 2019.

[Dave W]

The incident was in July 2019, on the first day of the FoS. That video says it was filmed at that event.

The AAIB report notes that an Airspeeder had had an unsuccessful flight ending in a heavy landing at Goodwood the day before the accident flight.

[patowalker]

TDA approved. Conditions of approval on page 13.

[matthew_w100]

I give up. Can someone point me at the actual LAW relating to Danger Areas and Temporary Danger Areas? ENR5.1 lists them, and helpfully mentions any bye-laws actually prohibiting entry which I can look up. But the ones that don't have bye-laws? Where is their legal status spelled out? Particularly wrt appearing before a magistrate on infringement charges.

[skydriller]

@matthew_w100 this has come up before. The problem is that the UK has danger areas which anywhere else in the world would be restricted areas...

[kanga]

..The problem is that the UK has danger areas which anywhere else in the world would be restricted areas...

since they are so defined, whether logically or not, in the ANO (which has the force of law, AIUI), might a magistrate deem that any infringement is, by strict definition 'endangering an aircraft', which is an offence ? It is an unfortunate reminder to me of the BA 747 late go-around at LHR, leading to a criminal prosecution:

https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Cat ... ase_Review

.. and follow link under B:

B741, British Aiways, London Heathrow, UK, 1989 ..

[skydriller]

@kanga

That link says :

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page.

[johnm]

AIUI you may not enter a danger area when notified active, you may not enter a danger area with a prohibition under by-law at any time. These rules can be trumped by a Danger Area Crossing Service and if the Danger Area Activity Information Service tells you the activity isn't going to interfere with your flight you can also cross if no by-law prohibition e.g. DAAIS says live firing up to 3000ft and you are at 5000ft you can go.

Hopefully that's all clear now

[kanga]

@kanga

That link says :

There is currently no text in this page. You can search for this page title in other pages, or search the related logs, but you do not have permission to create this page.

ah, I noted that the final ')' was not highlit in blue as part of the original link. Apologies. I hope I have amended it suitably

[flybymike]

AIUI you may not enter a danger area when notified active, you may not enter a danger area with a prohibition under by-law at any time. These rules can be trumped by a Danger Area Crossing Service and if the Danger Area Activity Information Service tells you the activity isn't going to interfere with your flight you can also cross if no by-law prohibition e.g. DAAIS says live firing up to 3000ft and you are at 5000ft you can go.

Hopefully that's all clear now

A freedom of information request from me regarding identification of those danger areas which the CAA deemed in their statistics to have been “infringed” was refused by them on the grounds of confidentiality.

You might conclude that a possible reason for this was because some such areas may not actually be legally capable of being “infringed”.,,.....but I couldn’t possibly comment.

[Dave W]

It is an unfortunate reminder to me of the BA 747 late go-around at LHR, leading to a criminal prosecution

And tragically, the later suicide of the Captain IIRC.

A detailed article by Stephan Wilkinson here. I believe it remains the only prosecution of its kind in the UK to date. I hadn't realised that the (A)AIB did not investigate due to workload at the time; BA and the CAA did, and the CAA then prosecuted.

[flybymike]

A horrendous vilification and waste of a good life.

[matthew_w100]

AIUI you may not enter a danger area when notified active, you may not enter a danger area with a prohibition under by-law at any time. These rules can be trumped by a Danger Area Crossing Service and if the Danger Area Activity Information Service tells you the activity isn't going to interfere with your flight you can also cross if no by-law prohibition e.g. DAAIS says live firing up to 3000ft and you are at 5000ft you can go.

Hopefully that's all clear now

But if I go below 3,000' can I be prosecuted? Can i be prosecuted if I fly through a parachute drop zone or a glider winch site? I THINK I'll only be prosecuted for the latter if I actually hit (or at least endanger) a specific glider or parachutist. And I'd be prepared to argue that I couldn't endanger an aerial robot - there needs to be an innocent third party before endangerment applies (who could, admittedly, be on the ground).

Where is the LAW?

It seems to me that these TDAs and DAs are simply a grab for controlled airspace, without incurring the expense of actually controlling it!

[Dave W]

And I'd be prepared to argue that I couldn't endanger an aerial robot - there needs to be an innocent third party before endangerment applies (who could, admittedly, be on the ground).

Where is the LAW?

IANAL but I suspect you'd be on a sticky wicket there. People have been prosecuted under the ANO for "recklessly endangering an aircraft" - i.e. the one they were flying.

Endangering safety of an aircraft
240. A person must not recklessly or negligently act in a manner likely to endanger an aircraft, or any person in an aircraft.

Endangering safety of any person or property
241. A person must not recklessly or negligently cause or permit an aircraft to endanger any person or property.

[JodelDavo]

I suspect flying through a notified 'Danger' area without permission might lead to a charge of enDANGERring, in that you knowingly put the aircraft into 'Danger'.. I would expect the charge of endangering an aircraft is a very difficult one to prove conclusively, but the reason above might just swing it in the prosecution's favour.

Dunno, maybe a legal expert can tell us?

I certainly wouldn't chance flying through a gunnery range that didn't contain bylaws preventing it..

(Rule 1 - Don't get caught.)