[G-BLEW]

FWIW, I think that @ls8pilot summarises the situation accurately heree

Ian

[GAFlyer4Fun]

In my earlier hypothetical scenario
Steddyeddy, for all his lack of flight planning, after a diversion only 20 or so miles into France, would in days past, enjoyed a night with his party and flown back next morning .

You never said it was for a party...

[oldbiggincfi]

You never said it was for a party...

Depends on who's paying

[Sooty25]

....
We have to bare in mind that the document that finalised what we as a nation would be doing, was signed less than 2 months ago. Every governmental department is going through the wringer trying to sort it all out and keep stuff moving at the moment.
....

Well, yes & no..... The final result was not known until quite recently. However there were a predictable and small number of likely outcomes and 2 or 3 scenarios could have been predicted well in advance. A commercial enterprise would have carried out some scenario planning for each likely outcome and had everything prepared, ready for when the final outcome was know. I could be wrong but I don't get the feeling this was done in several areas (not just the CAA).

and the two worlds largest courier organisations that employ vastly more resources than probably the entire UK Govt, still couldn't get parcels in and out of the UK, 'cos they couldn't get the paperwork right! If only life was this simple.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

... perhaps the programmer of the monolithic computer system has retired?

[MattL]

Just returning to this, reading through the website and online form which says:

Once you have a licence, if you only want to fly UK (G) registered aircraft in UK airspace you can use the online Pilot Medical Declaration (PMD).

A medical declaration (from 25th August 2016) is an affirmation of your medical ‘fitness to fly’ and may be used to exercise the privileges of a:

• UK Part-FCL Private Pilot Licence (PPL) to fly UK (G) registered Part 21 and non-Part 21 aircraft;

And It is valid for flying with the following operational conditions;

• With not more than three passengers on board;
• in aircraft with a Maximum Take-Off Mass (MTOM) of 5700kg or less
• In Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) or when exercising the privileges of an Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC)/Instrument Rating (Restricted). The privileges of a full Instrument Rating (IR) are not applicable.

So where does it say you cannot exercise Flight Instructor rating privileges on your PPL?

[tailbob]

This is where the website is at odds with the legislation. I do wonder if the writer of the website understands that there are two different regulations. For the Part FCL licence applying to Part 21 aircraft, the recent Aviation Safety Amendment makes it clear that one can only exercise LAPL privileges with a PMD and one cannot instruct with a LAPL.
For non Part 21 aircraft the ANO applies and with a PMD indeed permits flying aircraft MTOM up to 5700kg, use of the IMCR and could include the privileges of a FI Rating. However it is my understanding that for that to be possible one would require a pre 1999 UK PPL which included an in date FI Rating. The UK PPL does not include provision for the CRI.

[Forfoxake]

FWIW, I think that @ls8pilot summarises the situation accurately heree

Ian

Agreed, but I still have one query.

The recent CAA 'clarification' on SkyWise states that:

"Existing PMDs remain valid for the type of licence(s) and aircraft weight limits specified at the time of a declaration."

Does this mean that only those having to make a new PMD are affected by this problem?

If so, is a 2000kg declaration made by a LAPL(A) holder before the wording was changed (or only before 2021?) still valid till expiry date as long as no new or recurring relevant medical conditions occur?

PS I only want to fly G registered non Part 21 aircraft in UK airspace atm!

[ls8pilot]

FWIW, I think that @ls8pilot summarises the situation accurately heree

Ian

Agreed, but I still have one query.

The recent CAA 'clarification' on SkyWise states that:

"Existing PMDs remain valid for the type of licence(s) and aircraft weight limits specified at the time of a declaration."

Does this mean that only those having to make a new PMD are affected by this problem?

If so, is a 2000kg declaration made by a LAPL(A) holder before the wording was changed (or only before 2021?) still valid till expiry date as long as no new or recurring relevant medical conditions occur?

PS I only want to fly G registered non Part 21 aircraft in UK airspace atm!

Good question and I suspect a bit of cunning dissimulation by the CAA

The pre-Jan 2021 PMD has a preamble which reads as below. As you can see it only validates the PMD for use with non-EASA aircraft . Even though a Covid exemption temporarily extended this for while, I suspect the CAA could maintain that the previous scope applies and you cannot take advantage of the earlier PMD to fly Part 21 aircraft.

Applicable Licence Types

EU Part-FCL PPL to fly non-EASA aircraft,
EU Part-FCL LAPL to fly non-EASA aircraft,
National Private Pilot Licences (NPPL),
UK Private Pilot Licences (UK PPL), or
UK Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL) Balloons that is restricted to commercial operation and to the privileges of a UK PPL (Balloons and Airships),

So yet another bit of confusing and vague wording to go with "any.. medical treatment" and "a history of... recent surgery" . I can only assume maybe they have a trainee or work-experience person putting this stuff together!

[C1FF]

Currently, the < 2000Kg medical criterior does not appear to be covered by a statutory instrument (at least one in the public domain).
Until the CAA clarify the situation, it's anyone's guess on how they would legally interpret the previously issued PMDs . However, they could say the current advice, which excludes the <2000Kg criterior, supercedes the previous PMD wording.

Hopefully the CAA will get their act together and issue an upate before the covid flying restrictions are lifted.

[peter272]

Hopefully the CAA will get their act together .........before the covid flying restrictions are lifted.

.. in the next 2 weeks hopefully??

[patowalker]

Until the CAA clarify the situation, it's anyone's guess on how they would legally interpret the previously issued PMDs . However, they could say the current advice, which excludes the <2000Kg criterior, supercedes the previous PMD wording.

The acknowledgement of receipt includes a copy of your PMD, so there can only be one legal interpretation until we are notified that the privileges granted by that PMD are no longer valid.

http://skywise.caa.co.uk/pilot-medical- ... ification/

Existing PMDs remain valid for the type of licence(s) and aircraft weight limits specified at the time of a declaration.

[Forfoxake]

Until the CAA clarify the situation, it's anyone's guess on how they would legally interpret the previously issued PMDs . However, they could say the current advice, which excludes the <2000Kg criterior, supercedes the previous PMD wording.

The acknowledgement of receipt includes a copy of your PMD, so there can only be one legal interpretation until we are notified that the privileges granted by that PMD are no longer valid.

http://skywise.caa.co.uk/pilot-medical- ... ification/

Existing PMDs remain valid for the type of licence(s) and aircraft weight limits specified at the time of a declaration.

Unfortunately, the CAA is not in the habit of informing licence holders directly of changes in their privileges!

[Forfoxake]

FWIW, I think that @ls8pilot summarises the situation accurately heree

Ian

Agreed, but I still have one query.

The recent CAA 'clarification' on SkyWise states that:

"Existing PMDs remain valid for the type of licence(s) and aircraft weight limits specified at the time of a declaration."

Does this mean that only those having to make a new PMD are affected by this problem?

If so, is a 2000kg declaration made by a LAPL(A) holder before the wording was changed (or only before 2021?) still valid till expiry date as long as no new or recurring relevant medical conditions occur?

PS I only want to fly G registered non Part 21 aircraft in UK airspace atm!

Good question and I suspect a bit of cunning dissimulation by the CAA

The pre-Jan 2021 PMD has a preamble which reads as below. As you can see it only validates the PMD for use with non-EASA aircraft . Even though a Covid exemption temporarily extended this for while, I suspect the CAA could maintain that the previous scope applies and you cannot take advantage of the earlier PMD to fly Part 21 aircraft.

Applicable Licence Types

EU Part-FCL PPL to fly non-EASA aircraft,
EU Part-FCL LAPL to fly non-EASA aircraft,
National Private Pilot Licences (NPPL),
UK Private Pilot Licences (UK PPL), or
UK Commercial Pilot Licence (CPL) Balloons that is restricted to commercial operation and to the privileges of a UK PPL (Balloons and Airships),

So yet another bit of confusing and vague wording to go with "any.. medical treatment" and "a history of... recent surgery" . I can only assume maybe they have a trainee or work-experience person putting this stuff together!

I particularly like (f)"any history of...new medical treatment"(d)!

[C1FF]

patowalker
"Types of licences" and "weight limits" nothing about medical criterior.

ie you can fly a 2000kg part 21 aircraft with a lapl if you meet the 5700kg medical criterior with a PMD.

As I previously said, the CAA need to get their act together and issue definitive rules.