[Slingsby1000]

Having read ORS4 1416 can anyone confirm my understanding of the revalidation excemption? I am flying on a LAPL licence and my biannual is due on the 8th April 2021, I have the required number of hours and landings over the last 24 months but it is unlikely that I'll be able to complete a one hour check flight with an instructor in the near future . If I understand ORS4 1416 correctly I do not need to undergo the one hour annual check flight with an instructor if I he signs my licence and submits a form SRG1157 or SRG1119E to the CAA? In paragraph g) 'Normal class rating validity expiry dates will apply to other licence holders' does this mean that the new validity date of my licence will be 8th April 2023?

[GrahamB]

Having read ORS4 1416 can anyone confirm my understanding of the revalidation excemption? I am flying on a LAPL licence and my biannual is due on the 8th April 2021, I have the required number of hours and landings over the last 24 months but it is unlikely that I'll be able to complete a one hour check flight with an instructor in the near future . If I understand ORS4 1416 correctly I do not need to undergo the one hour annual check flight with an instructor if I he signs my licence and submits a form SRG1157 or SRG1119E to the CAA? In paragraph g) 'Normal class rating validity expiry dates will apply to other licence holders' does this mean that the new validity date of my licence will be 8th April 2023?

ORS4 1416 applies only to SEP and TMG ratings held against full licences. It does not apply to LAPLs, as explained in Note 4 in the document itself:

Holders of light aircraft pilot licence for aeroplanes (LAPL(A)) and sailplane licence (SPL) with TMG privileges: Due to the format of the recency requirements - ‘the rolling validity’, and as the flight experience required is over 24 months, it is anticipated that this exemption is not necessary for holders of LAPL(A) and SPL with TMG privileges.

[Irv Lee]

@Slingsby1000
It sounds like you don't understand lapl validity generally, you don'thave a class rating for example, did you get the lapl via a course or via a conversion? There is no expiry date, no signing of licence, no rating, no form, it is all based on 2 years before any p1 flight you intend to do. If you had loads of hours but it went over 2 years since your last training hour, you just do your training hour.

[low&slow]

Having read ORS4 1416 can anyone confirm my understanding of the revalidation excemption? I am flying on a LAPL licence and my biannual is due on the 8th April 2021, I have the required number of hours and landings over the last 24 months but it is unlikely that I'll be able to complete a one hour check flight with an instructor in the near future . If I understand ORS4 1416 correctly I do not need to undergo the one hour annual check flight with an instructor if I he signs my licence and submits a form SRG1157 or SRG1119E to the CAA? In paragraph g) 'Normal class rating validity expiry dates will apply to other licence holders' does this mean that the new validity date of my licence will be 8th April 2023?

Just curious, after your last flight with an instructor did he/she sign your licence?

[RipAndTear]

@Slingsby1000
It sounds like you don't understand lapl validity generally, you don'thave a class rating for example, did you get the lapl via a course or via a conversion? There is no expiry date, no signing of licence, no rating, no form, it is all based on 2 years before any p1 flight you intend to do. If you had loads of hours but it went over 2 years since your last training hour, you just do your training hour.

That's how I understand it to be too as I'm in a similar position, except I have an additional NPPL A which has to have a rating renewal signed in the licence as it always has been.

[MachFlyer]

Slingsby1000 is really Irv proving his point & I claim my £5

[Slingsby1000]

@Slingsby1000
It sounds like you don't understand lapl validity generally, you don'thave a class rating for example, did you get the lapl via a course or via a conversion? There is no expiry date, no signing of licence, no rating, no form, it is all based on 2 years before any p1 flight you intend to do. If you had loads of hours but it went over 2 years since your last training hour, you just do your training hour.

I obtained my LAPL via a conversion. OK I understand what you are saying its basically a rolling process but due to Covid-19 its unlikely that I will be able to do a training hour with an instructor. How do I stay legal

[Irv Lee]

@Slingsby1000 I wouldn't be too embarrased about not fully understanding what happens, you are in my opinion in the majority!
If you get past your '2 year anniverary' of an hour with an instructor, no big deal at all, you just do the training hour when you can, but yu have to do it before flying any p1, even if you are way past 24 months since your last training flight. And indeed, when you are ok to fly next, you have to work out if you need more than an hour.... take an example: - it looks like you last had a training hour on april 8th 2019. Suppose for reasons of lockdown, weather, aircraft maintenance, etc etc, you cannot fly at all til June 30th 2021, clearly, your first flight cannot be P1 as you do not meet 2 year validity as it is weeks more than 2 years since a training flight - so:
first case, assume you have loads of p1 spread nicely over the 2 years up to June/July 2021, and loads of take offs and landings, so the only thing stopping you being p1 on June 30th is the missing training hour in the last 24 months back to July 1st 2019. So you just do the training hour. Now, next time you want to fly after that, suppose it is a 6th July 2021, you have a very recent training hour, you have loads of p1 hours in the previous 2 years back to 7th July 2019, enough to meet validity for 2 years back, so you can fly p1 on 6th July 2021.
Now take case 2 - again, let's assume for many reasons that you don't fly until June 30th 2021, but looking back, you only have 10 hours 30 as p1 back to July 2019 - if you ONLY fly an hour with the instructor on June 30th 2021, you still cannot fly p1 after that, as you only have 11 hours 30mins in the past 2 years. So instead you fly 1:30 dual with the instructor and suddenly you have 12 hours in the past 2 years (1:30 pu/t and 10:30 p1) - so for the moment, you could fly p1. But suppose again, having done the 1:30 with the instructor on June 30th 2021, you don't actually fly until July 6th 2021. Have you still got 12 hours in the 2 years back to July 7th 2019? You definitely have over an hour with an instructor 'cos you did that a week ago, in fact you did 1:30, but do you still have the other 10:30 back to 7th July 2019? If you do, you go flying p1. If you don't, you should have thought a week or two ahead, and done even more with the instructor a week ago to compensate for the hours about to drop off the back of your 2 years history in the following week. So before flying p1 on July 6th 2021, because you don't meet validity again, you have top to 12 with dual with an instructor again... and so it goes on.
Alternatively, you can say *** it and do a proficiency check with an examiner, and not have to do any checks on historic validity for the next 2 years.

[Slingsby1000]

Hi Irv Many thanks for your help, time and patience, I really appreciate it.

[RipAndTear]

@Slingsby1000 I wouldn't be too embarrased about not fully understanding what happens, you are in my opinion in the majority!
If you get past your '2 year anniverary' of an hour with an instructor, no big deal at all, you just do the training hour when you can, but yu have to do it before flying any p1, even if you are way past 24 months since your last training flight. And indeed, when you are ok to fly next, you have to work out if you need more than an hour.... take an example: - it looks like you last had a training hour on april 8th 2019. Suppose for reasons of lockdown, weather, aircraft maintenance, etc etc, you cannot fly at all til June 30th 2021, clearly, your first flight cannot be P1 as you do not meet 2 year validity as it is weeks more than 2 years since a training flight - so:
first case, assume you have loads of p1 spread nicely over the 2 years up to June/July 2021, and loads of take offs and landings, so the only thing stopping you being p1 on June 30th is the missing training hour in the last 24 months back to July 1st 2019. So you just do the training hour. Now, next time you want to fly after that, suppose it is a 6th July 2021, you have a very recent training hour, you have loads of p1 hours in the previous 2 years back to 7th July 2019, enough to meet validity for 2 years back, so you can fly p1 on 6th July 2021.
Now take case 2 - again, let's assume for many reasons that you don't fly until June 30th 2021, but looking back, you only have 10 hours 30 as p1 back to July 2019 - if you ONLY fly an hour with the instructor on June 30th 2021, you still cannot fly p1 after that, as you only have 11 hours 30mins in the past 2 years. So instead you fly 1:30 dual with the instructor and suddenly you have 12 hours in the past 2 years (1:30 pu/t and 10:30 p1) - so for the moment, you could fly p1. But suppose again, having done the 1:30 with the instructor on June 30th 2021, you don't actually fly until July 6th 2021. Have you still got 12 hours in the 2 years back to July 7th 2019? You definitely have over an hour with an instructor 'cos you did that a week ago, in fact you did 1:30, but do you still have the other 10:30 back to 7th July 2019? If you do, you go flying p1. If you don't, you should have thought a week or two ahead, and done even more with the instructor a week ago to compensate for the hours about to drop off the back of your 2 years history in the following week. So before flying p1 on July 6th 2021, because you don't meet validity again, you have top to 12 with dual with an instructor again... and so it goes on.
Alternatively, you can say *** it and do a proficiency check with an examiner, and not have to do any checks on historic validity for the next 2 years.

Whoa! I think I might go and buy a boat instead - looks a lot easier than this, particularly when you start talking about a day or a week here or there, which can make the difference between your flight being legal or illegal! Is it no wonder a lot of people are confused? And that's without lockdowns...

[Irv Lee]

@RipAndTear I have the impression most are ignoring it and just planning to do 11 hours by the date 2 years after their last training hour. I have suggested an alternative compliance where the pilots can chose themselves between historic hours or the way most are actually doing it in reality.
I wondered what the Germanic were doing with it, and had my first feedback the other week from one who had asked about validity for lapl- to paraphrase, replied: "what????? No one is doing that at my airfield!"

[Dave W]

@Irv Lee, did they say what people are doing then?

[Irv Lee]

@Irv Lee, did they say what people are doing then?

I can only assume same as ours, but I do know what happens at an airfield in one of the French speaking countries- didn't have time to ask which, conversation terminated abruptly when the Easa employee who was also an FE got annoyed with me over this and told me he was fed up the the English obeying the rules and complaining about them when instead they should do what lapl holders did at his airfield, which was "ensure the log book shows you are legal". Now there are two ways of doing that, I was in no doubt which he meant.

[JAFO]

This is not directed at anyone on this thread but I have to say, I have never understood why "Have you done 12 hours in the last two years including 12 take-offs and landings? Was at least an hour with an instructor? Did they sign your logbook?" is so hard to follow.

I know things have been confused over the last year with COVID but I have lost count over the years of the people I have heard of completely failing to understand their own licence validity requirements.

If you can't count to twelve you should place your licence in an envelope and return it to the issuing body.

[RipAndTear]

@Irv Lee: I see what you mean... as it happens, more by luck than actual judgement, I hardly flew in 2019 due to illness, and with the winter 2019-2020 into March, I only managed around half of the required hours and in between lockdowns achieved just over the required numbers to do my 'hour with an instructor'. Having tried unsuccessfully to get a day with an instructor (they were overbooked as everyone else wanted an instructor or generally bad wx prevailed !) I was shunted unceremoniously into lockdown 3, where we all remain. My end of march date is looming, but I have been told that they have been extended by the CAA to April 30 2021 (need to confirm that - but have it on good authority) for my LAPL A - not sure about the NPPL SSEA or if it's still a valid licence as things seemed to 'go south' with articles I read last year - mainly about the exit from the EU and the future of national licences - It's a bit too daunting to want to dabble into the complexities of these things, so I will probably wait until I actually get some positive news from 'somewhere'. I can hope I suppose..