Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By xtophe
#1821363
Forum members who enjoy flying the the Scillies will be interested by the following consultation:
https://consultations.airspacechange.co ... t-corridor

It is for RMZ+TMZ.

Forum members who don't fly to the Scillies might be interested in the poor safety arguments put forward by the sponsors or the fact that apparently there is a very cheap avionic installer at Lands Ends (£2000 to source and install a transponder)

More documents at https://airspacechange.caa.co.uk/Public ... ea?pID=199 at the bottom of the page.
#1821382
I really commend the excellent article in the just released Flyer magazine that talks about this and the Scottish drone TDAs - I think it’s a really key read for setting the scene of 2021.

However, somewhat depressing that one organisations first response (not untypically) is basically ‘we want to fly around and not talk to anyone or be electronically visible’.

I heartily believe GA’s first shot should be ‘we will all be electronically visible for airspace integration by 202x’ (and ADS-B provides that answer IMHO) - it would put us in such a strong negotiating position. We will just get mown down by the oncoming train if we try and dig our heels in on legacy standpoints.
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#1821396
MattL wrote:However, somewhat depressing that one organisations first response (not untypically) is basically ‘we want to fly around and not talk to anyone or be electronically visible’.


With trials of electric aircraft between islands proving the significant progress in battery technology and modern lightweight ADS-B out devices and Radios the argument we have no on board electrical system is starting to become hollow.
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By Dave W
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821400
Marvin wrote:... modern lightweight ADS-B out devices ... the argument we have no on board electrical system is starting to become hollow.

Until ATS can utilise ADS-B OUT only, rather than Mode S-ES, there is still a significznt practical issue driven by ANSP infrastructure.

That will no doubt come, but CAP1391 devices currently do not mitigate the requirement for EC in the air traffic (as opposed to MAC avoidance) domain.
#1821406
Dave W wrote:
Marvin wrote:... modern lightweight ADS-B out devices ... the argument we have no on board electrical system is starting to become hollow.

Until ATS can utilise ADS-B OUT only, rather than Mode S-ES, there is still a significznt practical issue driven by ANSP infrastructure.

That will no doubt come, but CAP1391 devices currently do not mitigate the requirement for EC in the air traffic (as opposed to MAC avoidance) domain.

No disagreement from me on that front but with devices like this Ping200X together with the revision to FISO use of radar, trials of ADS-B ground infrastructure at GA airfields and drones using ADS-B in/out and, from the Goodwood Trial, rebroadcast of traffic for inflight situational awareness there is a lot going on.

Hanging on to old barriers is going to become more difficult.
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User avatar
By xtophe
#1821418
The ACP I linked to in the OP has nothing to do with drones. There is another ACP for a TDA.

This one is just "to improve safety".

About ADS-B equipment for ATC, here it it even worse, Land-s End airport is trying to get a TMZ while not equipped with a secondary radar (or any form of radar).
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By James Chan
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1821420
It seems a bit strange to create a RMZ/TMZ region like this for en-route operations.

I thought Class E+TMZ was meant to address this sort of problem - and used elsewhere across the UK.
#1821427
xtophe wrote:The ACP I linked to in the OP has nothing to do with drones. There is another ACP for a TDA.

This one is just "to improve safety".

About ADS-B equipment for ATC, here it it even worse, Land-s End airport is trying to get a TMZ while not equipped with a secondary radar (or any form of radar).


Although there is mention of future commercial drone operations and the adoption of EC devices as part of that operation, should it happen.

There appears to be an assumption that the onboard ACAS systems would benefit from the TMZ without perhaps addressing the issue that that may only apply to an ACAS able to interrogate/receive replies from mode s transponders. It’s an increase in safety for aircraft operations that have such devices fitted and nothing to do with the GA market using ADS-B type EC devices.

Perhaps a legitimate comment/question on the feedback is to ask who is providing the Radar Service alluded to, but not identified, in the proposal and how situational awareness/safety is improved when there is no mention of any Radar facilities at St Just or Lands End.

Plenty of holes to comment on in the proposal :)
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#1821484
James Chan wrote:It seems a bit strange to create a RMZ/TMZ region like this for en-route operations.

I thought Class E+TMZ was meant to address this sort of problem - and used elsewhere across the UK.

When the weather is good it's a very busy 20 miles of airspace and there will be a helicopter service from Penzance this summer as well.
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By Iceman
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1846390
It’s a bit of a stretch from Perranporth to St. Mary’s. Obviously, Lands End weren’t interested in such an operation. Interesting that the TDA remains largely clear of the Lands End transit corridor.

Active 12th May 2021.

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Iceman 8)
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