Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Earl Grey
#1817388
I hold two PPL licences both issued by the CAA .....a EU Flight Crew Licence issued in accordance with Part FCL and a UK Private Pilots Licence (Aeroplanes). Like many of us I ticked the box to retain the latter when I applied for the former in 2017. Post Brexit is there now any point in maintaining currency on both? Hitherto I have had both signed at revalidation.

Happy New Year :D

EG
By Seamas
#1817394
Is it possible to keep both current?

I have UK CAA ATPL and a very recently SOLI’d to Spain (from UK) EASA FCL ATPL,

Similar to the OP, can I keep both my ATPL’s current?
Thanks
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By Smaragd
#1817403
Earl Grey wrote:I hold two PPL licences both issued by the CAA .....a EU Flight Crew Licence issued in accordance with Part FCL and a UK Private Pilots Licence (Aeroplanes). Like many of us I ticked the box to retain the latter when I applied for the former in 2017. Post Brexit is there now any point in maintaining currency on both? Hitherto I have had both signed at revalidation.

Happy New Year :D

EG


Is there any downside to keeping both current other than having to get a second signature? The CAA is intending to overhaul licences so why change your licence status until the way ahead is clear?
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By Irv Lee
#1817409
I have been keeping both signed up for years.... Jan 1st brought no positive change to licensing, just promises to do "something maybeee.....", they could easily have done something for jan 1st to show positive intent.... eg
- have a path nppl to UK ppl (only "policy" stops that)
Or with a minor 2ndary legal effort: restore ssea to lapl £46 paperwork bridge for all ssea. As they can do it for older ssea, there can be no argument about suitability for newer ones Or just restore the ssea situation back to when we ceased easa representation (jan 31st 2020) so ssea can fly Part21 aircraft.
Lack of sympathetic action suggests an underlying contempt behind the scenes for microlight pilots - whatever their experience in almost-sep style aircraft, they have no way to progress to a full ppl without a full abinitio course for either ppl or lapl.
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By ls8pilot
#1817416
There are whole load of licencing issues which I'd hoped CAA would sort out once the 31st deadline had passed, eg flying Part 21 aircraft, use of PMD within UK airspace, etc. Lets hope it's just the Bank Holiday and we see something next week - not holding my breath though and it's a bit academic at the moment for me due to T4 restrictions.....
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By Irv Lee
#1817418
@ls8pilot I don't think the nppl-ppl upgrade (both national) had anything to do with EASA or FCL , it could have been done anytime and should never have been stopped. I spoke (Zoom) at the Europa agm - clearly there were PPLs (national) enjoying wonderful trips around Europe, and equally SSEAs since April 2018 (from microlight) who could only read about it all and 'wish'.
I attended an examiner seminar, quite a few 'senior' ones there with apparently little knowledge or time for grass roots stuff, (why would they if their lives are full of I/R tests?), and clearly they are the sort with influence.
I do wonder though about a couple of documents on the CAA microsite and similar - they refer to the idea that a UK PPL can fly a G-reg anywhere because it is ICAO compliant (with an ICAO level medical and rating). They do NOT specify UK FCL PPLs - Now I'm interpreting that as loose wording, as they have never been great at thinking of national licensing, but equally, you now have what WAS clearly EU law over-riding UK law now just being UK law, and I wonder if their is a hidden conflict there between UK ICAO obligations and agreements and the newly copied UK law. Is the wording 'loose' or are they sneakily hiding that there is an argument (due to the conflict between the copied-from-EU law and national ICAO compliance) that the national PPL (an ICAO PPL) should be able to fly suitable G-reg Part21 now? As I said, I would assume loose wording, but it would be annoying to hear in 3 months time "Oh, didn't you know? you've been able to fly a PA28 on a UK national PPL since Jan 1st". It doesn't help the SSEA at all of course, but the loose wording is troubling.
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#1817427
This is one of the areas which, from a personal perspective, I am fairly horrified about and would be keen to see either a change or, failing that, a proper justification of why we're staying here.

I held a poo-brown CAA PPL with SEP rating.... When a long-term medical condition rendered it impossible (or, latterly, possible but stupidly expensive) to maintain a medical certificate I had an SSEA (and a Microlight) rating added to my poo-brown licence and still fly on that. At the time I could still fly pretty much any SEP <2000kg G-reg on it within the UK...... then in 2018 that ceased to be the case, on EASA's edict.....

Now, if I understand the mass of information correctly, I STILL can't fly pretty much any <2000kg G-reg on it, because any (roughly)ex-EASA Part 21 aircraft remain excluded..... despite being G-reg and me having a CAA-issue licence and a rating which appears to cover them. How was this allowed? Did the CAA not get Boris's memo about "sovereignty" and "taking back control"? As it happens my main interest for some years has been LAA kitplanes and microlights, but I can hardly credit that I can still no longer fly the Cessnas/Pipers/Slingsbys which I learned on, in this country, with a CAA licence.... Sigh.......
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By SteveX
#1817428
Here is a radical suggestion, why dont the CAA now mandate one is either fit to fly an airborne metal structure, or isnt. Hence the UK to moves to something called a Private Pilot License. It is the one and only one route to becoming a ppl. All other licenses become illegal/redundant/expired say on 1 Jan 2022. In the meantime all license holders are issued with a new UK PPL that is ICAO compliant of course and mandated to shred all others which are no longer valid for anything.

Said new license has an area in which ratings are included eg. SEP, night, <600kgs only etc.
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By GrahamB
#1817431
It's the 1st Jan, FFS. We've been out of EASA's grip for less than 24 hours.

Don't you think the CAA have had more important things to worry about (in the grand scheme of things) than a small number of whinging old farts that can't play with the toys they might want to for a short period of time?

Its been seven or years or so since the 'you need an EASA licence to fly an EASA type' rule came in, and it's down to the CAA's doggedness that the derogation/exemption originally put in place to allow people to transition has been extended several times, finally terminating April 2020 (not 2018). The rod they made for their own back by doing that was that it led people to think it was going to last forever. Well it wasn't.

Now we are out of the EU/EASA it will happen, so give them a chance. If we'd stayed in, you'd have lost it for good.
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By T6Harvard
#1817436
SteveX wrote:Here is a radical suggestion, why dont the CAA now mandate one is either fit to fly an airborne metal structure, or isnt. Hence the UK to moves to something called a Private Pilot License. It is the one and only one route to becoming a ppl. All other licenses become illegal/redundant/expired say on 1 Jan 2022. In the meantime all license holders are issued with a new UK PPL that is ICAO compliant of course and mandated to shred all others which are no longer valid for anything.

Said new license has an area in which ratings are included eg. SEP, night, <600kgs only etc.


^^^ whot he says !
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By nallen
#1817437
T6Harvard wrote:
SteveX wrote:Here is a radical suggestion, why dont the CAA now mandate one is either fit to fly an airborne metal structure, or isnt. Hence the UK to moves to something called a Private Pilot License. It is the one and only one route to becoming a ppl. All other licenses become illegal/redundant/expired say on 1 Jan 2022. In the meantime all license holders are issued with a new UK PPL that is ICAO compliant of course and mandated to shred all others which are no longer valid for anything.

Said new license has an area in which ratings are included eg. SEP, night, <600kgs only etc.


^^^ whot he says !


And medicals? (Not all of us have Class 2: yesterday I could fly around Europe; today I can't.)
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By Irv Lee
#1817521
Remember they didn't find out we were leaving Easa on Jan 1st - that date was significant for simple well.prepared signals on what wrongs they could right, and completely insignificant for opening the nppl-ppl route.
I cannot imagine anyone filled on their survey to say "please ensure progression from microlight pilot to icao licences or flying simple certified aircraft in the UK remains as difficult, expensive and off-putting as you can make it" but equally, very few whom it doesn't affect directly will have given the same issue a moment's thought to mention, as it means nothing to them personally.
It means nothing to me personally except I get the "someone said you would know: is there really no way that....." calls from fellow pilots who are trapped for no reason other than a "policy" greatly influenced by pilots who already have much higher licences and privileges sought, or by previous political dogma.
If the righting-wrongs for the pilot argument doesn't instantly open doors, maybe the extra business for schools/renters/syndicate share sales argument appeals.
Sitting back with no pointers to "default changes to be made unless huge objections" or unnecessarily delaying making such changes in order to have "priority surveys" amongst pilots who will prioritise "personal nice-to-haves" does nothing to help individual pilots trying to plan their futures both practically and financially. I have been chatting to someone since the Summer who had to either sell his much loved and much flown Easa permit or go through a whole ab initio lapl course because he moved from microlights too late in 2018.
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By Highland Park
#1817527
nallen wrote:
T6Harvard wrote:
SteveX wrote:Here is a radical suggestion, why dont the CAA now mandate one is either fit to fly an airborne metal structure, or isnt. Hence the UK to moves to something called a Private Pilot License. It is the one and only one route to becoming a ppl. All other licenses become illegal/redundant/expired say on 1 Jan 2022. In the meantime all license holders are issued with a new UK PPL that is ICAO compliant of course and mandated to shred all others which are no longer valid for anything.

Said new license has an area in which ratings are included eg. SEP, night, <600kgs only etc.


^^^ whot he says !


And medicals? (Not all of us have Class 2: yesterday I could fly around Europe; today I can't.)


Am I right in thinking that having a PPL(A) (issued July 2012) and a LAPL Medical means I can still fly abroad, or have I got that wrong and you have to have a Class 2?

Ian
#1817533
Am I right in thinking that having a PPL(A) (issued July 2012) and a LAPL Medical means I can still fly abroad, or have I got that wrong and you have to have a Class 2?

You have that wrong. From the CAA microsite:
Unless with the approval of the State or Crown Dependency concerned, LAPL privileges included in a UK CAA issued Part-FCL PPL may only be exercised in UK airspace.
Why? Because a UK CAA issued Part-FCL PPL, which does not include a valid Class 2 medical certificate, does not comply with the requirements of Article 59 of Regulation 2018/1139.
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