[ozplane]

Interesting that Sweden, which initially had a "laissez-faire" attitude to the virus , has imposed some strict rules due to the increasing infection rate. Probably indicates that their "herd immunity" philosophy hasn't worked as they thought.

[Crash one]

I can’t understand why the public, the government and every organisation are trying their best to behave in the same fashion as they would without this virus threat.

Because:

A lot of people have no idea how they are going to put food on the table and keep a roof over their heads for their family

People are scared stiff but having to use public transport to get to their hourly paid job(s)

A lot of people are waking up depressed, with spouses and children in tears and despair every day

A lot of new parents are suffering with crushing post natal depression and child development has been massively compromised

Long term relationships and marriages have terminally broken down

Challenged children and teenagers are spiralling down behind peers in education and development

Etc etc

These are all people I know personally. Labelling everyone who is trying to navigate this mess as some of kind of hedonistic selfish ‘you will kill people’ type is IMHO hugely wrong. Moreover, it will prove fatally ineffective in actually tackling things.

This is what I was trying to get at.
The government shouldn’t have to spend all their time trying to persuade people to stay apart and behave sensibly.
Their job should be to make it financially possible for people to stay apart, and still survive.
Introduce a wartime ration system, free of charge for basic essentials, stop landlords evicting people for non payment including suspending mortgages and all other expenses that people’s jobs would make possible.
You can’t blame people for living the life they were used to and spending their salary, pay on it. That’s what everyone does.
Stop the hoarders from stocking up on toilet paper!!! Is that what some people are scared stiff of running out of?
Now that the vaccine is here and it’s just a case of time before we get back to life, put the economy on hold for a couple or six months, buckle down and wait. Instead of asking “Can I fly my bloody aeroplane please?”

[Paul_Sengupta]

Europe is more interdependant and a lot of stuff is trucked within, and through, the area.

Yes, though France did it...we had thousands of lorries parked on Manston while all the drivers tested negative!

And thats just the UK...that has vaccinated 1.5million already.

While here in France the other day the prime minister announced they had vaccinated a grand total of just over 500 people... yes, that is indeed a 5 followed only 2x zeros ...

Apparently the UK has vaccinated more than the rest of Europe combined.

If the government gave in and said, ok, go out as you wish, no masks required, no distancing, just carry on, but the virus is still here, the public would be dancing in the streets slobbering over each other, infections and deaths would go through the roof and the public would say, “why didn’t you do something?”

I think it's a bit more nuanced than that. Over the past few months, the biggest conduit to infection has been schools. The government has insisted that schools stay open as children needed an education. But it's now killing over a thousand people a day. That's one thing where the government has a direct influence. Parents are divided, with many really wanting to get their kids into school, where others really want to keep their kids off school due to the virus, but know that in doing so they'd be breaking the law and could be fined.

Stop the hoarders from stocking up on toilet paper!!! Is that what some people are scared stiff of running out of?

That and cupboard food. People look at it this way. "I'm not going to leave the house to go to the supermarket for the next few months. What do I need to have in the house?"

There were also major shortages of dried pasta, tinned food and flour.

[Crash one]

People can go to the supermarket, there is no shortage and no need to stock up.
The siege mentality is not necessary and never has been.

[Paul_Sengupta]

You are correct, but then people think, "If I go to the supermarket, it could kill me and my family, so I'm going to try and go as infrequently as possible."

A good friend daughter currently has Covid. The only place her and her mother have been out of the house for weeks is the supermarket apparently.

My friend's been at home building his aeroplane!

[TLRippon]

Well, I think a lot of this is in the mind.

I have not been able to work for four months of this year so far and fall between the cracks of any support for the self employed.
I have two children, 1 in primary and 1 in secondary school both at home and both requiring to be home educated and if you are in that situation, it's not a case of sitting them in front of "Teams" at 9:00 and closing their bedroom doors until 15:00.
My wife was made redundant at the start of the first lockdown, made to work her notice and actually left at the start of the November one. Luckily she has a new job now but for a period we had no earned income.

I hear all the complaints about:
"I can't fly"
"I can't go on holiday"
"I can't go to the Boozer"
"I can't go to a restaurant"
"I can't go to a shopping centre"
"I can't go to the cinema"
"I can't sit in a coffee shop with my friends"

I have never been so happy.

My children and I, who certainly haven't seen as much of me, ever, have a far more solid relationship. All my family relationships have become stronger during lockdown because we are all focussed inwards towards each other.
We've both saved a fortune not going to work and in particular not flying. Our bank balances have never been healthier.
The drudge routine under which we were both working has been broken and we feel so much better for it.
I've manged to get things done I've been putting off for decades.
I've cooked consistently through this and have become far healthier than I was before and broken the habit of regularly eating out.
I've never had so much sleep and never realised before how fatigued I was all the time.
I was a three holiday a year person but I'm not missing it.

I think there is a lot of politicking going on around the lockdown, the reality is that it is not forever, it is a time to change focus in your life and if you get into the right mental place it is not that hard to follow. If you spend all your time dwelling on the things you can't do then you are certainly going to get yourself down.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

You are correct, but then people think, "If I go to the supermarket, it could kill me and my family, so I'm going to try and go as infrequently as possible."

A good friend daughter currently has Covid. The only place her and her mother have been out of the house for weeks is the supermarket apparently.

My friend's been at home building his aeroplane!

The frequency/quantities thing should settle down to average out to be as it was before pandemic as a family will get the same consumables per month that they normally needed (or they will run out of money or storage space at home) but from just fewer visits to the supermarket.

Decades ago it was more normal in this country to shop once a fortnight or once a month. The supermarkets strategies have converted many people over to daily shopping for convenience in more recent years before the pandemic and those are the hardest people to get to shop less frequently.

The only products that pandemic is likely to have increased demand for in a domestic household setting is personal PPE and sanitiser type of things and vitamin D, and for the gym bunnies some exercising equipment.

Going to the supermarket is my only risk. I go at a time of day when there are almost no other customers there to reduce the risk.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

As we are in national lockdown with its own set of rules, continuing this Tier 4 thread is pointless as it just blurs the distinction about what can be done in lockdown rules and tier 4 rules.

How about starting a new forum topic relevant to the current national lockdown rules for a bit more clarity!

If we eventually come out of lockdown and into Tier 4, it is a possibility the Gov will have redefined the Tier 4 rules so that is probably a whole new topic of discussion anyway when the time comes.

[Paul_Sengupta]

Decades ago it was more normal in this country to shop once a fortnight or once a month. The supermarkets strategies have converted many people over to daily shopping for convenience in more recent years before the pandemic and those are the hardest people to get to shop less frequently.

The days when you had to make a 40 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket...and people had chest freezers to store lots of food. Now most people don't have the space for a large chest freezer, and those who have them are chucking them out.

Going to the supermarket is my only risk. I go at a time of day when there are almost no other customers there to reduce the risk.

Yes, me too. Some friends of mine were complaining about supermarkets either being too crowded or having huge queues to go in. I said to go in the hour before they close, they're nearly empty. They changed and had a much better shopping experience.

Thankfully Tesco have seen the error of their ways when it comes to closing at 10pm, and are now open until midnight. 11pm is a good time to go shopping!

[MattL]

None of this is straightforward, a weekly sit down with a friend in Costa can be one persons dispensable luxury but a sanity lifeline to a struggling single parent. I was speaking earlier to a struggling single mum in the play park who is scared stiff they are going to close them next; it could be a breaking point for her. Might be nothing but a line in spreadsheet model to a Professor sat in their warm home office.

[kanga]

..

Decades ago it was more normal in this country to shop once a fortnight or once a month. The supermarkets strategies have converted many people over to daily shopping for convenience in more recent years...

<antiquarian >

But some of us can remember an era before homes commonly had a fridge, let alone a freezer. They might have a 'larder' (stone walls and floor, fly grill window, to stay cool) or a smaller 'meat safe'. Then, more 'staples' (milk, bread, ..) might be delivered daily; while other things (eg, ingredients for evening meal) had to be shopped for also daily. The weekly shop depended on the widespread availability of at least a fridge.

In '50s I can recall living in a rented cottage which had no electricity, but did have mains gas for cooking and gas mantle lighting

</>

[Boxkite]

As we are in national lockdown with its own set of rules, continuing this Tier 4 thread is pointless................

Agreed. Title doesn't make sense anyway.

[JAFO]

As we are in national lockdown with its own set of rules, continuing this Tier 4 thread is pointless as it just blurs the distinction about what can be done in lockdown rules and tier 4 rules.

I thought we were in Tier 4.

I was under the impression that all the legislation did was to extend Tier 4 to the whole of the country and it's territorial waters (but not the airspace above it).

The only change after the PM's statement was reminding people what they should have been doing in Tier 4 anyway.

There was very little in the new legislation, just some quite minor strengthening of the Tier 4 rules which now apply to us all in England.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

Have a look here.... https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

They have removed reference to tiers. It is simply Lockdown and what that means now.

Once they lift the lockdown, whenever that may be, they said they would re-introduce tiers and we will have to wait and see if they drop it to tier 4 everywhere or some of the lower tiers in different parts of the country, all dependent on the scientific data at the time of course.
(I generalise as Scotland, Wales, NI might do there own thing again)

[Miscellaneous]

@Miscellaneous - the weather here is s**t.

JAFO, having yesterday's daily exercise disturbed by texts from a forumite whinging about the Carp weather in the south I have had an opportunity to reflect on your above comment and said texts. I have concluded, in terms of flying sacrifice, I'm having a tougher covid time. Of the 9 days of 2021, 7 have been flyable. I've flown 1.

Yesterday's weather, my empathy wanes!!