[G-BLEW]

Thanks to Catherine Burton for pointing this out…

It seems that Cardiff (understandably) wants to save some money. No problem with that, but it also wants to keep its controlled airspace H24, effectively turning it into a no-go area when they are not there.

I emailed the CAA asking how this works.

Q) EGTT/QSPAH/IV/BO/AE/000/105/5123N00310W022
B) FROM: 20/12/21 11:20C) TO: 20/12/28 23:59
E) CARDIFF AIRPORT AND RADAR PROPOSED OPENING HOURS
21 DEC 0715-1800
22 DEC 0900-1915
23 DEC 0845-1800,2030-2115
24 DEC 0900-1800
25 DEC - CLOSED
26 DEC - CLOSED
27 DEC 0900-1800
28 DEC - CLOSED
CONTROLLED AIRSPACE REMAINS ESTABLISHED H24. OPENING HOURS MAY
CHANGE AT SHORT NOTICE AND AERODROME AND/OR ATC MAY OPERATE OUTSIDE
THESE HOURS. AIRCRAFT ARE TO CALL ON FREQUENCY 125.855MHZ OR
119.150MHZ. IN THE EVENT OF AN EMERGENCY CALL AIRPORT FIRE SERVICE
TEL 01446712505 OR AIRPORT DUTY MANAGER 01446712600)
FOR OUT OF HOURS BOOKING MADE IN EXCESS OF 7 DAYS TIME, YOUR
NONINATED HANDLING AGENT OR AIRPORTS COORDINATION LIMITED WILL BE
ABLE TO CONFIRM AVAILABILTY.
THIS NOTAM WILL BE UPDATED TO SHOW THE NEXT 7 CALENDER DAYS OUT OF
HOURS AVAILABILITY.

[OhNoCB]

I remember being told years ago about some rule regarding three calls to an ATSU and if no response then it was allowed to assume they weren't there and you could proceed.

I re-iterate, this is something I remember being told about, I have never attempted to use this 'rule' nor had reason to do so. If it is indeed valid, would it work here?

[AlanM]

Surely them saying that they may open at short notice is what they will argue upon.

Also, Cardiff Airspace technically includes the airways in all four directions around BCN. (For Bristol traffic as well)

However, I can see why people would be irate at the thought of the CTR being kept open when the airfield is closed. That doesn’t even happen here!

[GrahamB]

I got two IFR transits last week, both during periods notified as being shut. They’re were just bandboxing both frequencies onto 119.150.

[Hermitageclose]

When Southampton Airport/ATC was NOTAM'ed as being closed earlier this year, primarily at numerous and various times through the day/week, even more so than as of now, the CTR/CTA (specifically the area not encompassing Bournemouth) and even the ATZ reverted to Class G Airspace. But to allow them to reactivate their airspace at short notice if necessary, aircraft operating with the confines of the deactivated CTR/CTA where requested to SQUAWK 7011 (Solent Monitoring Code) and to monitor 120.230MHz Solent Approach when not receiving a lower airspace service for another provider so ATC could contact them if urgently required.

If seems very strange that as Cardiff also have their own SSR Monitoring code (3636 I believe), why is it then they can't use the same methodology that Southampton employed under similar circumstances albeit their CTR/CTA may extended slight further upwards. This would at least allow aircraft access to the airspace when ATC were not operating...?

[JonathanB]

Also, Cardiff Airspace technically includes the airways in all four directions around BCN. (For Bristol traffic as well)

The airways CTA bits that are delegated to Cardiff from London Control (Swanwick) go back to London Control, with Bristol taking some of the lower levels (but not the CTR I don’t believe).

[Stampe]

Minimum service should be maintained even when closed an air ground operator or recorded transmission stating airspace is class G.There has to be a price to having controlled airspace.It is not acceptable for a crossing service to be unavailable.I suspect the chance of getting any reply from our hopeless airspace so called regulators is minimal.Stampe

[Dave W]

... or recorded transmission stating airspace is class G.There has to be a price to having controlled airspace.

Quite so. The recorded transmission solution is generally failsafe and well-proven outside the UK.

It would seem an obvious, cheap, pragmatic, fair and safe way ahead.

[Iceman]

I’m guessing that they are not equipped with such auto-response equipment ? On the occasions when I crossed the Solent CTR back in the summer during what would normally be their operating hours, there was no auto-response on the approach frequency at least. Just notified by NOTAM.

Iceman

[Dave W]

I’m guessing that they are not equipped with such auto-response equipment ?

Perhaps not, currently.

There has to be a price to having controlled airspace.

[Marvin]

Perhaps one might be encouraged to listen to their ATIS.

From the AIP - ATIS information available by telephone externally on 01446-729319.

[skydriller]

I dont understand how a section of airspace can remain active if no-one is there controlling it because there is no-one using it...

...thats nuts...

[Human Factor]

If there’s no-one controlling it, how will they know if you’re in it?

[gasman]

Durham Tees Valley have been notaming short ATC closures for over a year. I asked an ATCO there whether the class D airspace remained active ? His reply : ‘that’s one for the lawyers to decide’
I (and many other local pilots) cannot risk infringement action so avoid the airspace when ATC is closed.

[Shoestring Flyer]

I also spoke by telephone with Durham Tees Valley ATC about a year ago about their, at that time lunchtime closure, and he confirmed that it did indeed revert to Class G during that period.