Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Maxthelion
#1808629
I've been blessed with an aerobatic constitution so never had a problem with all that. It was just a case of mustering the bravery to practice solo that I needed. Still, a bit of fear early on in the learning process probably keeps one safer in this game.
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By davef77
#1808637
Maxthelion wrote:I've been blessed with an aerobatic constitution so never had a problem with all that. It was just a case of mustering the bravery to practice solo that I needed. Still, a bit of fear early on in the learning process probably keeps one safer in this game.


For me I don't think that fear is the right word, but I think that there are things that look like significant hurdles on your journey and that you approach with, what is always with hindsight, more trepidation than it deserved.

I had initial, basic instruction, loops rolls and stall-turns, basic spins to be safe, the rest is self-taught or with instruction from the ground.

I can remember the trepidation of my first flick-rolls, inverted spins, then pushing out from vertical down and full outside loops from the top.

Right now my neg-flicks are rubbish because, I think, I am not committing enough and so pushing quickly or forcefully enough to really detach the flow and so stall the wing so that I get a clean flick initiation. That is me not wanting to hurt myself with too much neg-G (a reasonable precaution :wink: ).

Once I can do neg-flicks I know what I will be scared of next, and it may be the thing that stops me from ever competing at Unlimited. I really don't fancy doing various roll combinations at the bottom of a loop, started from the top :shock:

I think that may be the last thing that I am nervous of though :D
By GAFlyer4Fun
#1808649
@davef77 if you filmed the video the day before Lockdown2.0, I saw part of the pre-flight 'aerobatic dance' to rehearse the sequence.

I think I missed the inverted bit though. :wink:
8)
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By davef77
#1808669
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:@davef77 if you filmed the video the day before Lockdown2.0, I saw part of the pre-flight 'aerobatic dance' to rehearse the sequence.

I think I missed the inverted bit though. :wink:
8)


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Yes that was the one, I guess I have to improve my inverted walkthrough :thumleft:
By Maxthelion
#1809240
I had the priviledge of a post maintenance test flight today in these locked-down times. We had made good some poor workmanship in the rear end of our RV-8 which involved putting the elevator to how Vans says it's supposed to be as opposed to where the builder thought it ought to. This has resulted in an aircraft that will now stall in inverted level flight with enough forward stick, when previously it would only mush a little. I then took the next logical step as an aerobatic nerd and tried a push from inverted level to vertical. -3 all the way to about 45 degrees up and then I had to back off as my eye sockets were bulging and my nose felt like something was going to pop. The pitch rate of the RV when inverted is very slow indeed, and you need to be going fairly fast to have the energy to make something of your intended figure. This means that you spend a loooong time enjoying the negative G, when if you had a hotter machine you would have even more negative G, but for shorter periods.

More practice needed after lockdown methinks.
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By davef77
#1809308
Maxthelion wrote:I had the priviledge of a post maintenance test flight today in these locked-down times. We had made good some poor workmanship in the rear end of our RV-8 which involved putting the elevator to how Vans says it's supposed to be as opposed to where the builder thought it ought to. This has resulted in an aircraft that will now stall in inverted level flight with enough forward stick, when previously it would only mush a little. I then took the next logical step as an aerobatic nerd and tried a push from inverted level to vertical. -3 all the way to about 45 degrees up and then I had to back off as my eye sockets were bulging and my nose felt like something was going to pop. The pitch rate of the RV when inverted is very slow indeed, and you need to be going fairly fast to have the energy to make something of your intended figure. This means that you spend a loooong time enjoying the negative G, when if you had a hotter machine you would have even more negative G, but for shorter periods.

More practice needed after lockdown methinks.


I very clearly remember my first forays into significant neg-G. I felt a big sense of achievement, it feels a bit like a rite of passage, but also I felt like "I am never going to be able to do more than this, it is too unpleasant".

Like everything else, with a bit of acclimatisation, it gets a bit easier, though in the case of neg-G, probably never comfortable, just a bit less uncomfortable.

Well done! :thumleft:

I am champing at the bit to get back to trying to get my neg-flicks sorted, so "More practice needed after lockdown methinks" is spot-on!
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By Charliesixtysix
#1809331
Maxthelion wrote:I had the priviledge of a post maintenance test flight today in these locked-down times. We had made good some poor workmanship in the rear end of our RV-8 which involved putting the elevator to how Vans says it's supposed to be as opposed to where the builder thought it ought to. This has resulted in an aircraft that will now stall in inverted level flight with enough forward stick, when previously it would only mush a little. I then took the next logical step as an aerobatic nerd and tried a push from inverted level to vertical. -3 all the way to about 45 degrees up and then I had to back off as my eye sockets were bulging and my nose felt like something was going to pop. The pitch rate of the RV when inverted is very slow indeed, and you need to be going fairly fast to have the energy to make something of your intended figure. This means that you spend a loooong time enjoying the negative G, when if you had a hotter machine you would have even more negative G, but for shorter periods.

More practice needed after lockdown methinks.


Sounds like you are hard up against the limits of your aircraft - are you considering moving to a more capable aerobatic mount soon?
By Maxthelion
#1809343
Hi Dave, yes - it's definitely a step up in terms of physicality. I had previously been regularly flying inverted turns and rolling circles, but the sustained G was rarely more than -1.5 and the peak momentary G was about -2.5. I felt comfortable with that and didn't think the aircraft had much left to give. I didn't think sustained -3 would be such a leap but it really does feel that way.

Charlie - yes, a more capable aeroplane would be great. Do you have something you can let me use? In all seriousness though, I am certainly nudging the edges of what it's possible to do with an RV-8 within the bounds of what the LAA set limitations are, and what Vans' guidance is on how to do aeros without putting cracks in the structure(I consulted them directly in order to educate myself on the true limitations of the structure - essentially, rolling with significant G on is to be avoided, the rest of the lmitations are as published) . I own a share of the RV, rather than all of it, and it's very cheap to own and fly. I'd swap my share for a similarly priced one in an Edge 360 or a One-Design in a heartbeat, but they simply don't exist in my neck of the woods, and until I can improve my economic situation, I'm stuck with what I've got.
By TopCat
#1809344
davef77 wrote:I very clearly remember my first forays into significant neg-G. I felt a big sense of achievement, it feels a bit like a rite of passage, but also I felt like "I am never going to be able to do more than this, it is too unpleasant".

My first experience of negative G coincided with learning how important it is to have the harness done up tight.

I was doing beginner aeros in a Decathlon out of Plymouth, Mass, and having rolled to the inverted, I was unable to roll it back, as I'd fallen out of the seat by a couple of inches. As it's pretty heavy in roll, all that happened when I moved the stick was that I went sideways.

I could have pulled through into a half loop of course, but as the instructor was in the back seat, he rolled it the right way up and I tightened up the harness and had another go.

I quite enjoyed inverted turns - probably got to about -1.5G - and was happy as anything turning back and forth getting used to the strength of push, till my instructor told me that the inverted fuel system wasn't going to last much longer :)

Happy days.... though they got even happier when someone else bent the Decathlon while taxying so there was only the S2B available. Such hardship.....
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By davef77
#1809357
TopCat wrote:My first experience of negative G coincided with learning how important it is to have the harness done up tight.

I was doing beginner aeros in a Decathlon out of Plymouth, Mass, and having rolled to the inverted, I was unable to roll it back, as I'd fallen out of the seat by a couple of inches. As it's pretty heavy in roll, all that happened when I moved the stick was that I went sideways.


I have had a couple of similar experiences. I used to own a Yak 52, which I flew out of Turweston for a bit.
I am quite tall and there is rarely much headroom for me, but on this day I hadn't done-up my straps well enough and when I rolled inverted I ended up with my head kind of jammed slightly sideways against the roof of the canopy.

More recently I was flying my CAP and heading off to a practice area. I often practice rolls on the transit to both practice, and to warm-up a bit for my flight. I had done up my harness, but it must have been tucked-in strangely or something. In hindsight I think that maybe one of the buckles was wrapped over on itself and held-in-place by the tension in other straps or something.

Anyway, I rolled upside down and "fell" about 1/2 to 1", as the harness sorted itself out, before being stopped by the neg-G strap - It certainly got my attention! :shock:

I test it much more forcefully now as part of my normal pre-flight ritual.