Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By GAgreg
#1802197
Morning,

I am curious as to peoples opinions on the next steps / natural progression from flying the standard PA28 / Cessna 150.

I have around 115 total hours, with 25 coming in the last 8 months or so.

I am looking at potentially joining a non equity group with 2 aircraft. One having retractable gear steam gauges and the other being a full glass cockpit with fixed gear.

Up to this point I've only flown steam gauges with fixed gear. Am I at a reasonable point to take the next step towards glass cockpit and retractable gear? Obviously with the right differences training and being signed off.

Many thanks, :thumleft:
By Cessna571
#1802202
It’s more about what you are doing with your time in the air.

If you are currently renting, then maybe your next step is to be able to take an aircraft away for the day/weekend, and a group (any group) will help with that.

Define your “mission” first, that defines your aircraft / group.

I still fly a PA28-140 in a very flexible group because my mission is “go to airfields within about 200 miles for the day or bimble around for fun”.

A chap has just left our group for a bigger PA28 because his mission is “go to France every weekend”.

We have a chap with a second share in a Chipmunk because part of his mission is “fly aerobatics in an old aircraft.”
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By David Wood
#1802204
Regardless of the aircraft, your next step ought to be to get an IR(R). Whether you have steam gauges or glass, fixed or folding wheels, the IMC Rating/IRR will change the way you use either and open up huge opportunities. It's a huge bang-for-the-buck, especially if you want to go places.
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By defcribed
#1802207
GAgreg wrote:Up to this point I've only flown steam gauges with fixed gear. Am I at a reasonable point to take the next step towards glass cockpit and retractable gear?


Of course, if that's what you want to do. No reason you can't do these things straight after (or even during) your PPL training - there are no minimum hours requirements.

Decide what you want to do, first and foremost. Don't pay for more training just because it seems like a logical next step. If you really want to fly those aircraft, then do!

It may suit your needs of course, but do be aware that non-equity shares are really just renting via another name and a different set of legalities. While you may not quite be providing someone with a profit, you're at least subsidising their flying.

I'd recommend an equity share in the type of aircraft that meets your flying needs, with the almost-always-true proviso that the members of the group are a more important consideration than the actual aircraft.
By GAgreg
#1802209
David Wood wrote:Regardless of the aircraft, your next step ought to be to get an IR(R). Whether you have steam gauges or glass, fixed or folding wheels, the IMC Rating/IRR will change the way you use either and open up huge opportunities. It's a huge bang-for-the-buck, especially if you want to go places.


Hi David, agreed. This on my to do list next year, after Simon's weather school next month.
By GAgreg
#1802210
defcribed wrote:
GAgreg wrote:Up to this point I've only flown steam gauges with fixed gear. Am I at a reasonable point to take the next step towards glass cockpit and retractable gear?


Of course, if that's what you want to do. No reason you can't do these things straight after (or even during) your PPL training - there are no minimum hours requirements.

Decide what you want to do, first and foremost. Don't pay for more training just because it seems like a logical next step. If you really want to fly those aircraft, then do!

It may suit your needs of course, but do be aware that non-equity shares are really just renting via another name and a different set of legalities. While you may not quite be providing someone with a profit, you're at least subsidising their flying.

I'd recommend an equity share in the type of aircraft that meets your flying needs, with the almost-always-true proviso that the members of the group are a more important consideration than the actual aircraft.


Thanks! At this time I don't have the funds to purchase a share in an aircraft and am more than happy in a non equity arrangement subsiding anothers flying for the time being, the flexibility and cost over a schools aircraft suit me. As David mentioned the next step is to obtain an IR(R).

I wasn't looking to move to either glass cockpit or retractable but my current circumstances have prompted the need to look for alternatives. The option is reasonable price for myself and given the upgrade is appealing.

Thanks for your input much appreciated :)
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By Rob P
#1802238
GAgreg wrote:
I am curious as to peoples opinions on the next steps / natural progression



What you are probably discovering is that there is no 'natural' progression.

Each person's path is different, inevitably.

Mine went:

Training
Flying school Warrior
Night
Multi
Grouped Yak 52
Grouped PA22
Owned RV-4
Shared RV-6

I have never done an IR of any sort, find glass cockpits basically unpleasant and like the freedom of gentlemen's aeros.

I doubt you could find anyone on this forum with a matching progression.

This non-equity group sounds a good plan for the time being, particularly as you can't fund a share. But what is the attitude to taking the aircraft away for a few days? If that's not acceptable it still sounds to be largely £200 hamburger run stuff.

Rob P
By As I CFIT
#1802383
1. Avoid getting financially involved in anything with a retractable undercarriage unless you need the extra speed and range

2. Get an IR(R) but don't go looking for trouble with the weather

3. Don't get bored with an aircraft just because it doesn't have the latest and most visually-impressive avionics

4. Night flying considerably ramps up the degree of risk

5. It's better to be proficient by flying regularly in something affordable than spreading yourself and your finances too thinly in a more outwardly impressive machine

6. The personalities of the other group members in your syndicate will influence your satisfaction just as much as the aircraft itself

7. You don't have to be flying something more complex or going somewhere further afield to be progressing
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By David Wood
#1802574
As I CFIT wrote:2. Get an IR(R) but don't go looking for trouble with the weather


Agreed with all that, and obviously don't go looking for trouble in any form...

However, an IRR is only of value if you remain current - and instrument flying skills evaporate more quickly than most. Don't fall for the line that it's just a 'get you out of trouble' rating. It isn't; never was and never could be. It's a restricted Instrument Rating and it equips you to fly in weather (including full IMC) that you wouldn't be able to if you had only a VFR rating.

So don't be frightened of using it in full IMC - but obviously don't go looking for trouble. We're all mortal.
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