Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1794310
Having similar availability issues in a syndicate with much more relaxed currency rules.

Aircraft availability may have been skewed by some people trying to spread a whole year of flying into 6-8 months?

My suggestion is to relax and chalk it down to an exceptional year.

Don't get too disheartened chasing 30 day currency. Take a break now and then and come back to it when it suits you and your family/holiday plans etc.

There will be some flying days that will be way better than others and make it all worthwhile.
#1794325
Whinge on. We are here to help.........everyone’s been there at some point.
There are many ways to fly and many price points. Whatever your need there’s probably somebody here who can advise.
First off, where are you? Private strips tend to stay just that. Private. So you may not realise what’s close to you. We maybe able to help. And not all aircraft shares are advertised.......
It dies sound like a share would help. Cheaper than renting with flying buddies attached.
Talk to us!
#1794332
Why did you want to learn to fly ??

Was it just the challenge of learning something new ?
Do you have commercial aspirations ?
Was it just to be able to enjoy flying ?

I am in the fortunate position to have the money and time to pursue any type of flying, but I just learned to fly because it was a new challenge and I just love flying.

I have only got an NPPLm (after trying gliding). I have now been in a few syndicates with modern three axis machines that have similar performance to a Cessna 150, and fly them for beer money (£45 per hour wet).

In a syndicate you will meet up with other pilots who also fly for fun .........and then the real flying for fun starts :lol: I have flown into about 120 different airfields, from the likes of Birmingham/Bristol international , right down to the most difficult and challenging short grass strips that you just couldn't dream of doing in an "typical club 150".

This has made me into a much better pilot and I have thoroughly enjoyed every minuet of it. With the right aircraft and flying buddy you can set yourself some challenges. e.g land at every airfield in Wales/Land at all 4 airstrips on the Isle of White in a day/etc.

If you do get into a syndciate aircraft try and pick one based at a bigger airport with ATC , hard runways etc (so you dont get grounded by waterlogged mud :( ) Also learn how to land the plane in the strongest crosswind the POH allows, so you rarely have to abandon flying due to wind.

I love it and weather permitting now fly twice a week through the whole year !! However if I flew a "Big Plane" that couldnt handle short strips i think I would have got fed up and stopped flying
#1794333
I was in exactly the same situation a few years ago, as newly minted PPL hiring one of the club planes for a 45 min bimble.
Soon got bored, struggling to keep the 30 day club currency, endless 'club check ride' etc etc.
Eventually gave it up due to work, family and the inconvenience of not being able to get a plane when I wanted to fly.
Fast Forward a few years, and having never really lost the urge , I had the feeling if I don't 'do this now' I'd regret it for the rest of my life. I got a share, it even comes with some great flying buddies :lol: One of the best things I ever did, and don't regret the few shillings it costs me.
The plane is always available, I often share the flying time, or I can take it away for days at a time, its well kitted out so no embarrassment when taking a friend flying as was the case in the knackered old club plane.
In 5 years of ownership, I never got bored of that moment (and don't think I ever will), when I turn the corner into the airfield and see my plane waiting to take me flying.
If you love flying, get a share.

SL
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1794336
Buy the share, but before you do so have a go at Aeros, when you look at it it may seem expensive but you will find 20 minutes aeros gives you ten times the handling that a local bimble will.
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#1794340
You’ve spent all that money and the fun and enthusiasm has gone out of it, but putting it down to weather and unavailability - really ? Being at the mercy of club aircraft must be soul destroying right enough. You need a flying buddy who is in the same position. The LAA has changed for the worse (for me) as it is now dominated by those with obese wallets, expensive high powered aircraft with “glass”cockpits which almost fly themselves. For the price of one Rotax engine, you could buy several aircraft with the good old wheezy VW bolted to the front, cheap to maintain and just as bliddy reliable. To my mind Rotax owners worry themselves to death about burping, the price of a gasket and all that nonsense. Gat back to basics.
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By foxmoth
FLYER Club Member  FLYER Club Member
#1794373
The LAA has changed for the worse (for me) as it is now dominated by those with obese wallets,,


I have to say I am surprised at that comment, yes there are those with more expensive aircraft but I have shares in one aircraft that you might consider as “ obese wallet” - an Rv7, but also an aircraft that is not so advanced and not found any difference in the way they are treated.
#1794412
So, you are going to unleash, at this point, a ten hours per year pilot on yer RV7 - I think not, and I wonder what your other shareholders would say about that. And as for “aeros” - for heavens sake, that’s asking him to run before he can walk.
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#1794419
Bill McCarthy wrote:The LAA has changed for the worse (for me) as it is now dominated by those with obese wallets, expensive high powered aircraft with “glass”cockpits which almost fly themselves.

As a members organisation the LAA would have failed in its objective had it not adapted and grown to encompass those aeroplanes. And I dare say the criticism would have been a tad more impassioned. :wink:

The aeroplanes you desire are still served by the LAA. I don't think, Bill, you actually desire them not to cover the range and evolve as an organisation in line with the aeroplanes members fly? Do you? :?
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#1794435
Bill McCarthy wrote:So, you are going to unleash, at this point, a ten hours per year pilot on yer RV7 - I think not, and I wonder what your other shareholders would say about that. And as for “aeros” - for heavens sake, that’s asking him to run before he can walk.


When unleashed from the costs and constraints of renting I'm sure the OP will be flying a good deal more than 10 hours. As for putting low time pilots into hot aeroplanes - you're falling into the trap of conflating low time with low talent. If the OP has the talent to transition onto an RV when still relatively low on hours then great. If he doesn't, then somebody from the syndicate can sit next to him for a sensible number of hours until he's in front of the aeroplane. And as for "aeros" - I taught myself in my RV-8 and won the Nationals, and I didn't even kill myself, not even once. We're not all the lowest common denominator.
#1794441
@flyingearly - you need a purpose to your flights and the good news is - that can be whatever you say it is.

You don't have to "upgrade" to the PPL or fly aeros or fly a taildragger or join any particular association or group; you need to find your purpose. If you can't find one, invent one.

This is not just opinion, this is experience. I learned to fly in 1986 but then didn't fly until 1988 when I did a handful of hours and then did nothing until until 2004 when I got an NPPL because it seemed like less faff. I flew for a couple of years, renting and doing a taildragger conversion but then my flying trailed off again because it didn't really have a purpose.

I came back to flying only a couple of years ago and have a LAPL now. I have also discovered that you need a purpose and this is different for every one of us. For some people it's flying round the world, for others it's touring Europe, there are those who simply use it as a method of transportation, for some it's the £100 cup of coffee that floats their boat, for some it's the people they meet, for others it's collecting new airfields, for some it's flying different types or flying upside down, a few enjoy videoing their flights and sharing them, many just enjoy taking up people who aren't lucky enough to be able to fly themselves but your purpose can be whatever you choose. I'd kind of imagined that my purpose had to be like everyone else's but that's why I kept stopping and starting.

Then I got talking to an old boy at the flying club who said he'd spent the last 40 years taking off, flying to the coast and coming back and he was clearly still loving it and I realised that you can choose to do whatever you want with your flying. I love the area I live in and am fascinated by its history, lots of which is more evident from the air than the ground. So, that's why I fly a lot of the time.

You've possibly caught yourself saying: "It's a nice day, I could go flying," and then followed it up with the thought, "but, what for? Perhaps I could save the money and spend the time doing something more productive."

I try to say: "It's a nice day, I could go flying, and check out the Martello towers along the coast." Or something like that.

It's not what I do every time, sometimes I think it would be nice just to go and practise steep turns or PFLs or a bit of nav. Sometimes I take friends and family flying because I love sharing the hobby I love - I do tend to spend the time pointing out archaeology, though.

I am lucky to be a member of a great club, I could phone up now and see if an aeroplane was free and they'd have no problem with me booking an aeroplane for a day or more if one was free. I would consider buying a share if the right thing came along in the right place but it still wouldn't help if I didn't have a purpose. I'd just be paying every month to keep someone else in the sky.

Find out what your purpose is.
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#1794454
Thanks everyone for your kind and constructive words. This forum has always been a great source of wisdom (and wit!) and this thread continues to prove it.

I've had a few PMs about this and wanted to respond more publicly also, as I had a chance to think last night and some comments popped into my brain.

The reason I learnt to fly - or my 'mission' - is I'd eventually love to explore the UK and further afield in an aircraft I part-own. At least, that was the starting point. I have a wife and two kids - all of whom have flown with me, survived and sort of liked it - and like many I had this fantasy we'd go on day trips to the Isle of Wight, or down to Devon/Dorset, or up to the Peak District, or maybe even explore further afield. If you watch YouTube then my (virtual) role model is SoCal Flying Monkey - if I could get to that point, I'd be a very happy man.

I'm not interested in aeros, or high performance per se...but as many will spot, the flaw in my plan above is that longer-term, I doubt my kids will really want to join me on these trips and so my backup mission remains the same, but just my wife and I bimbling away to nice places.

From a technical perspective, I like being a pilot, as opposed to 'just flying'. I like flight planning (seriously) and love all the responsibility that comes with my new skill. I like sharing insight with my passengers and showing them how things work and what everything does. I like to have a destination to fly to, or a purpose to a flight, whether that's visiting a new place, or practicisng a skill, or putting into practice something I don't get to the do much.

With that in mind, I'm very much torn between the 'I'd like to convert from a C42 onto a 4-seater to take my family away' vs 'being practical, why not join a permit 2-seater group and do a bit more exploring'. At this stage, I've been looking at a cub, or kitfox and have also spoken to a few others about either forming or buying into an RV7/9 build syndicate. I've looked at the Jabiru 430 for the 4-seater option, but if I'm completely honest with you - I'm so early in my flying career that I don't really know what aircraft type is right for me. As someone else said, maybe the aim should be 'just buy anything' and then take it from there, rather than this paralysis analysis.

Right now, I'm flying in the C42 which is a great, fun, benign little aircraft. I have only positive things to say about the club where I learnt and rent. But, the C42 is slow...and the locations I'm renting from mean there aren't many 'destinations' that can reached by a renter easily.

If I fly from Deanland (where I learnt), then it's a solid 2 hour return trip to the IoW, for example. From Headcorn, some of the East coast strips are accessible in a similar timeframe.

But what's really happened is I've spent 50 hours (including my training) flying over the South-East, around the Seven Sisters, Beachy Head, Bewl Water...and the same locations crop up: Redhill, Lydd, Shoreham, Rochester etc. I'd like to break free of that little corner of the South East.

To my original post, the thing that's actually killing me as a club renter at the moment - and pushing me over currency - is that I'm finding it really hard to find a combination of a) when I'm free, b) when the aircraft is free, c) when the airfield is open and d) when the wind is within limits, with a specific focus on d) and x-winds. Although I can rent from either Deanland or Headcorn, the runway orientations are fairly similar and so if winds exceed club limits (10kts x-wind) at one airfield, chances are they will at the other - and in any event, you have to book ahead so it's not until the day itself you have a clearer view of the conditions, by which time you can't easily swap locations.

It's a vicious circle really, but all with good intentions and totally correct and proper from the club: if it's too windy, I can't fly, but if I don't fly in windier conditions I'll never learn. I remember reading an website that I'm sure someone on here will be able to reshare, where someone had done the analysis on historic TAF/METAR to work out how many flyable days there are really each month in the UK; the conclusion was 'learn to love the wind'.

So, wrapping up my waffle, what I'd love is:

- to be able to look out the window and see it's a nice day
- to be able to drive a short distance (less than 30 minutes ideally) and jump in the aircraft
- to be able to fly it for as long as I like, as far as I like, subject to other owners wanting it after me
- to do this in something that's comfortable, easy to handle and ideally on the less expensive side to run

Once again, thank you for all the great advice. I think the conclusion to take from this is that renting from the club is a perfect way to start your flying adventure, but I now need to find a way to build up the hours to get to a point where I can switch into a syndicate early next year, so that should be my goal. Also, I'll join the local LAA strut and start 'networking' (I hate that word!) - and posting on noticeboards where possible.
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#1794455
You're in the rental trap: you hardly fly, and when you do it's a checkout with an instructor because you hardly fly.

Buy a share. Fly on your own terms. Make your own decisions on weather, destination etc. and enjoy much better aircraft availability.

The crosswind rule you describe is an absolute killer. 10 knots is nothing (or maybe it isn't to a C42, I don't know) and if the airfield only has one runway then the rule is going to prevent an awful lot of flying. Sure, they don't want their aircraft trashed - but it really is a lowest common denominator rule.

Remember that light aircraft generally don't have crosswind 'limits'. They have a 'maximum demonstrated crosswind', which is the maximum crosswind a test pilot landed it in during testing using no special technique at all - i.e. just pointed it at the runway and landed as normal. If you think about what the number tells you, really it just tells you that the landing gear is happy enough with the sort of side load that results from 'no special technique' landing in that crosswind. It tells you nothing whatsoever about how easy/hard or how (un)forgiving the aircraft is in a crosswind. Many (most?) types are quite happy above their max demonstrated with a bit of wing-down or crab.

I will now be flamed aggressively for encouraging you to land in crosswinds outside your capability by people who don't know what your capability is. ;-)

If you want to convert to a taildragger you don't need a course at a school. It's differences training, not a rating. Just an instructor (a CRI will do) and an aeroplane.
Last edited by defcribed on Fri Sep 04, 2020 10:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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