Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1853257
Human Factor wrote:
Anything else is superfluous.


So take away the aircraft. Most of the types there were never based there. I suspect it may become a lesser attraction if that happens.


I'm not sure that any of the exhibits at the main IWM ever served in the Battle of Lambeth, so I fail to see your point.
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By PeteSpencer
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#1853260
The IWM's moves on Duxford are distinctly Putinesque IMHO.

And sadly I don't see the Airliner Collection surviving the takeover of Duxford for that is what it is.

Having been a vol at Duxford for ten years or so and discussing stuff with representatives of both IWM and DAS I got a good appreciation of the current situation.

Slightly analogous to the CAA/Bellgrano bigwig Ex RAF staffing argument which is frequently aired on here.

Peter
(Disclaimer these views are my own).
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By PeteSpencer
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#1853263
Rob P wrote:I wonder how long the "Imperial" name will survive?

Rob P



'We might make a decision in a month, but it might be another month after that'

Gotta decide whether to 'take the knee' first.............to see if it fits the roadmap.
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By PeteSpencer
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#1853270
JAFO wrote:
Human Factor wrote:
Anything else is superfluous.


So take away the aircraft. Most of the types there were never based there. I suspect it may become a lesser attraction if that happens.


I'm not sure that any of the exhibits at the main IWM ever served in the Battle of Lambeth, so I fail to see your point.


Fortunate indeed then that the General Public swarm over the Airliner collection in droves whenever they get the opportunity, so DAS must be getting something right.

No such crawling rights over the IWM military aircraft. (unless you count crawling into the ar se end of a Lancaster to stare at the crew's Elsan....................... :roll:
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By Human Factor
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#1853275
Sorry JAFO, finger trouble on my part. Quote should have been as follows:

Duxford is not an aviation museum, it is a museum dedicated to those - both service and civilian - who have served this nation in conflict and, of course, most notably, those who have served at Duxford. That is the sole purpose of its continued existence. Anything else is superfluous.


Given that the vast vast majority of exhibits at Duxford are aircraft (appreciably not all of which are IWM and some with more support than others) or aviation related, it could be easily mistaken for an aviation museum. I would suggest if you were to ask most visitors why they choose to visit, “aircraft” would feature significantly in their answer. So I refer to my earlier post…

Human Factor wrote:
Anything else is superfluous.


So take away the aircraft. Most of the types there were never based there. I suspect it may become a lesser attraction if that happens.


Hardly superfluous.
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#1853314
@PeteSpencer - I know that we hold different views about the airliners and that's fine but I think that describing an IWM "takeover" at Duxford as Putinesque might be a touch harsh.

They own Duxford, if you sold your house and your mates had left some old rubbish in the garage, would you say that the new owners actions were comparable to Vladimir's or that they were launching a takeover bid if they got a skip and cleared it out?
#1853321
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I like aviation museums. I like Duxford as an aviation museum.


Paul, I like aviation museums too. One of my favourites is Bournemouth because they let you clamber all over everything and prove that you're way too big to ever have been a jet jockey. I like Duxford, too, in fact I love Duxford, there was a time in my life where my wife described it as "the other woman". The fact remains, though, that the people who own it don't see it as an aviation museum and I happen to agree with them. I think Duxford is an historic site which, as far as possible, should be preserved in a way that allows the story of the part it and places like it played in our nation's history to be told.

The purpose of the IWM is to give an insight into the causes, courses and consequences of conflict. They do that by collecting "objects and stories that give an insight into people’s experiences of war, preserve them for future generations, and bring them to today’s audiences in the most powerful way possible".

I still don't see how some old airliners do that. Perhaps someone can enlighten me.
#1853347
That's a fair point @Paul_Sengupta but not necessarily a view I'd entirely share. If you're trying to tell the story of Duxford and it's part in conflict then several flippin' big, brightly coloured airliners sat centre stage could be said to detract from that.
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By PeteSpencer
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#1853355
Paul_Sengupta wrote:The airliners are there in addition to all that. It's not taking anything away.


If anything they add shed loads of interest :. During my ten years of stewarding I’ve met several ex Concorde pilots on Concorde , met the actual pilot of the Comet , met several ex hosties on the Britannia who with tears in their eyes recounted their trips all round the world with Monarch .

In addition I’ve had a lecture on the sleeve-valve Bristol Centaurus on the Ambassador By an engineer who worked on them and spoken to a person who had been a pax on the Trident which got shot up by invading Turkish forces in Nicosia. ( Bullet holes patched up ay BEA engineers and a/c flown back -patches still visible on both sides of fuselage ).

Also researched an article by an elderly female pax who wrote a contemporary account warts and all of a trip from Heathrow to Lagos in the Hermes ‘Horus’. Memorable quote: ‘I was very surprised by how pale the palms of the porters in Lagos were’.

Excerpts from this account are now used in the DAS British Airliner Collection brochure.

Final point often lost in the noise They are all British airliners representing all that was great in civil aviation before successive government let it all go to worms .
Not a Boeing or McDonnell Douglas in sight .

But the public clearly see Duxford as an aviation museum .
Res ipsa loquitur…

Not a lot of mileage, though, in trying to change entrenched views .

Peter :wink:
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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#1853356
PeteSpencer wrote:It became DAS, recognised for its efforts: Indeed Dan Air donated two significant airliners, the Comet which made the first paying Transatlantic jet flight (beating the yanks by three weeks) The same Comet was at the personal disposal of HRH Duke of Edinburgh in 1950s for world travel, and the Ambassador.

Was not the Avro York also a Dan Air gift? I know it had been used by Scouts at Lasham, but I think it still belonged to Dan Air - and it's in Dan Air colours.
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By PeteSpencer
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#1853358
@Dominie
Yes indeed: I guess I was referring to Pax carrying airliners :

The York was actually a bit of a cargo work horse which actually transported the 100,000th tonne of coal/ similar cargo during the Berlin Airlift in 1947.

When it was being restored at Dux they found large amounts of coal dust in its ‘bilges’ when they took the cabin floor up.

It also had massive widened cargo doors on port fuselage to allow loading of spare aero engines which it flew all over Europe to rescue stranded piston engined airliners . :thumleft:
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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