Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Crash one
#1786915
How do you ground roll while sideslipping? Perhaps on very wet grass?
A recipe for a groundloop or “gear up!”
Ibra liked this
By Ibra
#1786916
Bill McCarthy wrote:Sounds like a good way for setting yourself for a groundloop, especially in a Jodel.


Why? do Jodels have tendency to turn while they fly/roll in forward sideslips?

If you keep straight line (looking at runway end in Jodels/Cubs or above to clouds in the Pitts) there is simply no way you will ground loop, but will ground loop when turning (may have to add that forward sideslips are NOT turns, neither in the air nor the ground)

Crash one wrote:How do you ground roll while sideslipping? Perhaps on very wet grass?


Bouncing should not be a problem on soft grass, the real problem is getting stuck !

But I agree, surely I would would not sideslip the ground roll on takeoff or landing with soft grass, as you said first you don't want more weight on both wheels and surely I don't want one going down while the other is not, but at the end of the day one should use sideslip as tool, it is way more adequate than dynamically fiddling with power/pitch/flaps* but yes it comes with few risks :thumleft:

*On flaps some "very experienced" people do fiddle with them: some land by raising them, some raise them while rolling after landing, some lower them while rolling on rotation, some raise them in ground effect, wise pilots tend to set them in one place and forget about them :D
By riverrock
#1786928
If wheels are not going to be able to rotate normally (because they are not pointing in the same direction as the aircraft is tracking) then surely that will increase the chance of a bounce rather than reduce it, as the alternative is they skid sideways along the runway / strip. Even more important on a grippy surface (such as non-grass). @Ibra - I take that from you suggesting doing this without a cross wind, so you are landing crabbed, with the crab forced by cross controls.

A ground loop is also more likely as the angled wheels have least resistance when they face the direction of travel (on the ground). Therefore when touching down angled, the aircraft will jerk from crabbed to face direction of travel (least resistance of the wheels) which could send you into a loop.

Sideslips I can understand to control speed / manage energy and give you better visibility on approach (especially when some aircraft don't have flaps), but I really don't understand touching down with the aircraft facing any direction except forward, unless (like a 737) you have castoring main wheels.
I can also understand landing with a "wing down" approach - which involves crossed controls to have the aircraft face forward in a cross wind (and will likely mean you land initially on one wheel) rather than "kicking off the drift" at the end of a crabbed approach but that isn't what you are describing.
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By Lockhaven
#1786934
Repeating what I posted earlier.

I might be wrong but I think @Ibra is talking about landing slightly crossed controls so that you land on one wheel therefore reducing the chance of a bounce.


So using the method I described above you won't be landing sideways but landing on one wheel in line with the runway, I suspect @Ibra native tongue is not english and some of what he/she is trying to explain is not coming across as how we are interpreting it.

Possibly the use of the word sideslip is in the wrong context.
By Ibra
#1786943
Lockhaven wrote:So using the method I described above you won't be landing sideways but landing on one wheel in line with the runway, I suspect @Ibra native tongue is not english and some of what he/she is trying to explain is not coming across as how we are interpreting it


You are right, a picture is better than million of words, I don't fly P51s that way
Easier to land Cubs/Maules that way than low wing tailwheels (e.g. Jodel/P51)

Image
By Crash one
#1786946
I think the Americans call this a forward slip.
Wing down and opposite rudder to stop the turn.
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By IainD
#1786951
Ibra wrote:
Lockhaven wrote:I might be wrong but I think @Ibra is talking about landing slightly crossed controls so that you land on one wheel therefore reducing the chance of a bounce, although not sure I agree with that rational.


I just land sideslip all time to some extent, maintain it in flare & ground roll, that "drag config" give more directional control and keeps aircraft stuck on ground even under low angle of attack or rough surface without me having to fiddle with pitch inputs, the only issue is as @riverrock mentioned is side loads on the wheels...

The obvious answer for bounces as everybody mentioned is to be right dead on touchdown speed & point, the two conditions are hard to achieve but they work in steep slow approach, if the point you are touching has big hole on it or the speed is high you go around

Now you can still touchdown fine and while rolling the aircraft bounces at 20kts in hitting a bump in NIL wind days, what do you do? (really not much :pale: )



This is news to me .I was always told at point of touch the most important thing is have the thing straight but you can be wing down ! Do this in our Rv and it'll bounce you and not in a pleasant way.
By Ibra
#1786981
IainD wrote:Do this in our Rv and it'll bounce you and not in a pleasant way.


Any good reasons why RVs would not like touching down or bouncing on one wheel? comes fast? short wing span? low ailerons authority? legs are not strong?
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By lobstaboy
#1786983
Surely if there is no cross wind at all it's not possible to have one wing lower than the other and for the aeroplane (i.e. wheels) to be going in the same direction that it's pointing? It has to be in a side slip (US "forward slip").
Physics, guys??

PS that P51 looks awesome in that paint job.
By oldbiggincfi
#1787003
TheFarmer wrote:Sorry, got waylaid. Mrs Farmer had a baby yesterday. Lots to do atm.
)


Does that mean being seconded to cutting the grass around the Ratan ( nice garden picture in a different thread ) ?
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By Hazel C
#1787028
Wow, from that part of the conversation, I am glad that bouncing a taildragger is normal and is not just for we learner tail draggers...I seem to bounce on every single landing at the moment :oops:

Just had an hours trip with a mate over to Matlock/Chatsworth in the Grob. Beautiful evening for flying today, fabulous views of the distant hills too (Matlock is as close to them as I have been thus far, but intend going further in sometime).

Next taildragging on Saturday....

Congratulations Mr Farmer on the new arrival!
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By Miscellaneous
#1787037
seanxair wrote:
Hazel C wrote:Just had an hours trip with a mate over to Matlock/Chatsworth in the Grob.


If you were talking to E Mids and heard some really poor radio calls..... :oops:

:lol: :lol:

I haven't spoken to any kind of service sine Nov last year (and that was a quick radio check during the permit flight)…I'm dreading having to do so. :shock: :shock:
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By Hazel C
#1787041
seanxair wrote:If you were talking to E Mids and heard some really poor radio calls..... :oops:


Nope, dont worry, your faux pas were not heard by us, we skirted around East Mids so didnt need to chat to them. I did see a couple of other aircraft thought. One was a twin engined job and the other looked Cessna-ish
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