Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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#1783350
chevvron wrote:
T67M wrote:I have flown a lot in the US, and their system is always a blessed relief by comparison with what pilots have here in the UK. For those who haven't enjoyed flight in the States, each flight is allocated a single squawk code for the entire flight, sometimes before take-off, and keeps that squawk even if they cross the entire country. Furthermore, each controller does a full handoff to the next controller, further reducing pilot workload as there is no need for constant freecalling.


Once again you are forgetting that in the USA you are flying in Class E airspace not Class G and most pilots file flight plans whether IFR or requesting VFR Flight Following which enables this 'joined up' transponder allocation. :wall:


No, I'm not forgetting that I'm in class E. In the USA, the CONTROLLER files the flight plan for the pilot based on the information given in the response to his (or her) request to "Pass you message". I give exactly the same information here in the UK in response to "Pass your message".

In the UK it's simply not possible unless you file IFR and fly inside controlled airspace for at least part of your flight. ie a Y or Z plan.:roll:


Why is it "not possible"? Other that bureaucracy and funding, which I've already conceded. Are we really saying that safety costs too much? I hope not...
#1783351
chevvron wrote:
Dave W wrote:
chevvron wrote:... can thus co-ordinate and handover much easier than in the UK.

Is it impossible then, or just more difficult?

Vastly more time consuming.


So, er, um, responding to, um, every, er, freecall, er, from a, um, rusty um, er, pilot, is, er, quicker than, um, talking, um, er, to a professional, er, controller on the, er, um thingummyjig, pheletone thingy?

Even in this modern day world of electronic flight progress strips?
skydriller liked this
#1783386
Flight following really is a joy if you havent exeprienced it, and in circumstances where you would rather relax a little, rather than fret that you will be the next GASCo criminal to have your pockets shaken hard. :D

All the long drawn out life histories are frustrating, until we recall we all started out that way to varying degrees, although I must blame the instructors, followed by the school teachers, followed by the parents but perhaps in no particular order.

I am just waiting to hear someone on the radio forget "H" is Hotel and announce they want to go to point Hache or some such thing. :D I know it will happen even the BBC is talking about the N Hache S, these days.
#1783468
Meanwhile back in the Farnborough Zone.....

The first three times I tried to get a
North -South transit I was told to stand by on initial contact. When the controller finally returned to me I had already worked my way round to abeam Lasham.

Since then I’ve started heading through the Heathrow zone, with 100% success. It’s faster if you are heading south east, there is rarely any orbiting. No drama if a 777 wants to climb out over your head and controllers who don’t sound like they have just entered the Hunger Games when they have more than two aircraft to deal with.
Fairflyer5 liked this
#1783493
T67M wrote:
In the UK it's simply not possible unless you file IFR and fly inside controlled airspace for at least part of your flight. ie a Y or Z plan.:roll:


Why is it "not possible"? Other that bureaucracy and funding, which I've already conceded. Are we really saying that safety costs too much? I hope not...

It's not possible because using LARS units, you are talking to several different units who each have a comparatively small block of SSR codes allocated to them by the CAA which enables controllers at neighbouring units to recognise who is talking to a particular aircraft. With IFR flights inside CAS, the whole of the UK is allocated several code blocks by Eurocontrol which can be used by a flight starting at (say) Glasgow and going to (say) Istanbul without having to change, each code being allocated to a flight by a computer at one of the two Area Control Centres in the UK and automatically paired with the aircraft's callsign shown on its flight plan.
If a LARS unit were to allocate a code for the whole of a flight in UK airspace (say Exeter to Wick), the original unit would quickly run out of available codes as each code cannot be re-allocated until the flight is a considerable distance away (what distance this is I'm not sure but for instance Farnborough and Lakenheath were both allocated the '0400' block but this may have changed since I retired) and it would 'rob' adjacent units of the useful tool of being able to perceive who is talking to a particular track.
As 'flight following' is provided by an ARTCC or TRACON in the USA rather than by a unit at an en-route airfield, a similar code allocation system to IFR flights can be used for VFR flights participating in Flight Following.
By the way, did you know that, according to an article I read in the US 'Flyer' magazine, there is no requirement for US controllers to tell you that radar service is terminated if they should get busy and need to concentrate on their IFR traffic whereas in the UK, controllers must inform you when radar service is terminated?
Sorry if the above sounds complicated but it's difficult to explain it to you pilots who are not also controllers.
Last edited by chevvron on Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1783498
chevvron wrote:With IFR flights inside CAS, the whole of the UK is allocated several code blocks by Eurocontrol which can be used by a flight starting at (say) Glasgow and going to (say) Istanbul without having to change, each code being allocated to a flight by a computer at one of the two Area Control Centres in the UK and automatically paired with the aircraft's callsign shown on its flight plan.


So not only is it possible, but it is being done...only its being done for those that arguably need less help than anyone else... Classic!!

Regards, SD..
#1783548
skydriller wrote:
chevvron wrote:With IFR flights inside CAS, the whole of the UK is allocated several code blocks by Eurocontrol which can be used by a flight starting at (say) Glasgow and going to (say) Istanbul without having to change, each code being allocated to a flight by a computer at one of the two Area Control Centres in the UK and automatically paired with the aircraft's callsign shown on its flight plan.


So not only is it possible, but it is being done...only its being done for those that arguably need less help than anyone else... Classic!!

Regards, SD..

It's been done that way for IFR traffic on airways for over 40 years; if you can find a way of doubling the number of codes available (presently 4096 codes for modes A and C using an octal code) then it might be possible for all traffic.
#1783552
IMCR wrote:
I am just waiting to hear someone on the radio forget "H" is Hotel and announce they want to go to point Hache or some such thing. :D I know it will happen even the BBC is talking about the N Hache S, these days.



:scratch:

Had me puzzled there for a minute:

I think you mean Haitch : most folks on here with a smattering of French would pronounce Hache as 'ash'. (or 'hash')

But now I get yer drift :roll:

But I guess Hotel is more precise.

Funny thing is the French would pronounce it 'otel on R/T !

Peter

Peter
johnm, flybymike liked this
#1783615
TLRippon wrote:Meanwhile back in the Farnborough Zone.....

The first three times I tried to get a
North -South transit I was told to stand by on initial contact. When the controller finally returned to me I had already worked my way round to abeam Lasham.



That's not good, I'd have run out of fuel if they sent me all the way round!
#1783781
Charles Hunt wrote:
TLRippon wrote:Meanwhile back in the Farnborough Zone.....

The first three times I tried to get a
North -South transit I was told to stand by on initial contact. When the controller finally returned to me I had already worked my way round to abeam Lasham.



That's not good, I'd have run out of fuel if they sent me all the way round!

Declare an emergency and divert to Fairoaks. :twisted:
(If you're coming from the north, Farnborough would then have to let you transit to reach your destination. Landing at Farnborough would be no help as they don't have AVGAS :wink: )
Charles Hunt liked this
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