Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By rdfb
#1783363
Lockhaven wrote:
jrp wrote:
Maybe radials are not the thing for just switching off for a moment and then firing up again.


Its seems from @TheFarmer that there were two onboard the Yak, could one of them not have stayed onboard while the other hopped out to help the stranded aviator ?


FWIW, I am very reluctant to permit a passenger to leave the aircraft while the engine is running. People forget about the propellor. This sort of thing has led to deaths.
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By rf3flyer
#1783364
Paul_Sengupta wrote:I think Defcribed has got the wrong end of the stick, so to speak, Michael is talking about you, the pilot, being behind the controls and someone else swinging the prop. That way there's no communication or lack thereof as to how things are set in the cockpit. The swinger verifies...."Throttle set. Brakes on. Mags on/contact." together with a thumb up, or a "Mags off" and thumb down.

Yeah, you would think so but I frequently used to hand prop a friend's Condor with him in the cockpit.
We had a routine, we were familiar with it, what could go wrong?
Then one day we went through it all, brakes, throttle set, mags OFF and prime. "4 blades please" to which I replied "switches off?"
"Switches off!"
I pulled through the first blade, then the second and it fired! It didn't start, just fired through a couple of blades but that was enough. I was fortunate that whenever I turned his prop whether pulling through or for start I always moved my arm and body through and away.
We had a break after that with many sheepish looks and apologies from him.
So even with a pilot at the controls mistakes can be made. A novice on the prop that day would have had a sore hand for sure.
#1783368
I have flown several aeroplanes without electric start and always find hand starting them a pain; would never own one as to my mind they are accidents waiting to happen.

Never have or will swing something with a VW conversion. Nasty.
#1783369
I always treat the prop as live. I may not swing it enthusiastically when pulling through with the mags off, but I make sure I'm still getting out of the way of the prop. A loose grounding cable on a mag isn't unknown, regardless of the person at the controls.
Flyin'Dutch' liked this
#1783374
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:...would never own one as to my mind they are accidents waiting to happen.

I consider that statement to be inaccurate and the position to be irrational based purely on emotion. :D

Not that I would criticise the choice not to own an aircraft without electrics.
By IMCR
#1783379
I am inclinded to agree about help.

It often comes with the caveat that it proves less than helpful, and, therefore when politely refused offense should not be taken.

My perfect example is yachties, who are very very good and usually very kind with offers to take your lines. However, many simply do not know what they are doing. It can be amusing because when you come along side they hold on with all their might, not realising that as much might as they think they have is but nothing to 26 tons wanting to go sideways. The trouble is they can so easily either end up in the drink hangin on to the line, with a cricked back, or simply leave you adrift. No, before accepting help it is well worth making sure the helper really knows what they are doing, otherwise you may well be a lot better off without any help at all. :-), however well intended.

That may be all very well when you have time to take them through simple instructions, but you dont always have time, and even then, the most willing of helpers is not always able to carry out what to you and I may seem like simple instructions!

Let me help you pull the aircraft out - of course, yes please, such a shame you didnt think to tell me the wing on the side you are pulling was about to graze the adjoining aircraft.

No I suspect we have all been the beneficiary of help we could have done without, as well meaning and as kind as it was intended.

Mind you I always feel bad about not accepting the offer so in most circumstances I have my own little patter and blame myself if I havent conveyed what is needed. Please get the line straight around the cleat, you will never hold her, I shout! - and as they do, you do know how to lock it off dont you?
Last edited by IMCR on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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By MichaelP
#1783380
I think some on here qualify themselves as Aero-******.

I quoted the CAA on this point, these are not my words.
I mentioned the lonely strip... You have no choice.

But when there are fellow aviators around, there is a choice.
A choice to ask someone to stand by the tail, or even be near the mags and throttle.

Very few pilots have refused my help when I have offered it, maybe two in the past few years.
And that is why I think that many who respond on here are themselves “Aero-******”.

Paul correctly pointed out that a magneto may be live.
Although the pilot might do the job of starting perfectly every time, there is the possibility of a live mag.

When I swing someone’s propeller I usually glance in the cockpit to ensure everything is set properly... Like others I never assume the bod in the cockpit is doing what I ask.

There is a silent majority out there who read these threads and who do not contribute less they, like me, get a virtual bloody nose. I’ve met a few.

On the subject of real blood, there was an 80% chance of real blood being drawn, and a 100% chance of aircraft damage if I was not there to hold the wing when the engine started at high power besides the pumps.
So in spite of the views expressed here I will not change my modus operandi, and I will continue to offer my fellow aviators help when they need it.

But on the subject of contributing to this forum, I will take a break.
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By romille
#1783385
Paul_Sengupta wrote:
Some years ago I remember reading a discussion on one of the American usenet groups about a way of tying down the tail where the end of the rope comes to the cockpit and you pull on that to release it. Some sort of fancy knot. I thought at the time that it was rather a smart way of doing it.

That is exactly what I do but use a swivel snap shackle rather than a knot, works a treat.
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By MichaelP
#1783391
jrp wrote:"I think some on here qualify themselves as Aero-******"

I thought it was an offensive term when used in the original post.......... using it to describe contributors to this thread is a bit off.


Sorry.

The attitudes expressed here read like the poor bloke with his microlight stuck in the hedge would say “I don’t need any help” because any help given might cause more damage to his aeroplane...

But I agree with your point of view.
By IMCR
#1783394
MichaelP wrote:
jrp wrote:"I think some on here qualify themselves as Aero-pikeys."

I thought it was an offensive term when used in the original post.......... using it to describe contributors to this thread is a bit off.


Sorry.

The attitudes expressed here read like the poor bloke with his microlight stuck in the hedge would say “I don’t need any help” because any help given might cause more damage to his aeroplane...

But I agree with your point of view.


Certainly that was not my intention if you had that in mind. I would sum up by saying we should always offer help when we can, simply dont be upset if sometimes it is refused, or sometimes we are given instructions as to how the recipient best believes that help can be provided.
#1783402
The term used on this thread is specifically mentioned in the rules of conduct as unacceptable. I have modified the thread name and ask you not to use it. (Unfortunately the mods are not here 24/7 or it may have been changed sooner).
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By defcribed
#1783410
@MichaelP I don't think you've got the bloody nose.

You've called me plain stupid, a bad aviator and now an Aero-****.

All I've done is disagreed with you.
#1783431
@David Wood sums up hand-swinging beautifully in post #1783333

I could have spent all day trying to write the same, but wouldn’t have succeeded getting the point across so well.

Don’t go Michael. Your input here is always excellent. Just because some people don’t agree with you, it doesn’t mean you’re not welcome.

Nobody EVER agrees with me, and quite frankly I don’t give a hoot. Fire the PC up and get back on here, because we can all learn good things from you. :thumleft:
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