Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Smaragd
#1782485
2Donkeys wrote:France pushes beyond even this as has been noted above.

Explain - or would you rather that Le Touquet closed over lunch?
By patowalker
#1782494
The only airports where France pushes beyond the requirements are CDG, Orly, Nice, Bâle-Mulhouse, Lyon and Marseille, which are the ones with more than 50.000 international IFR movements per year.
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By 2Donkeys
#1782518
Smaragd wrote:
2Donkeys wrote:France pushes beyond even this as has been noted above.

Explain - or would you rather that Le Touquet closed over lunch?


Personally, I don't have a dog in the race. I speak French, @Smaragd .

As others like @patowalker have pointed out though, the French do deviate from ICAO standards by insisting on the use of French (in conjunction with English) at their major international airports. I do think that's a bad idea because it destroys the situational awareness of non-French speaking flight crew.
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By Smaragd
#1782523
2Donkeys wrote:
Smaragd wrote:
2Donkeys wrote:France pushes beyond even this as has been noted above.

Explain - or would you rather that Le Touquet closed over lunch?


Personally, I don't have a dog in the race. I speak French, @Smaragd .

As others like @patowalker have pointed out though, the French do deviate from ICAO standards by insisting on the use of French (in conjunction with English) at their major international airports. I do think that's a bad idea because it destroys the situational awareness of non-French speaking flight crew.

Moi aussi!

It wasn't clear to me that you were referring to the major airports; in the Amiens thread I thought there may be some other context - apologies and thank you for the explanation.
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By Rob L
#1782535
2Donkeys wrote:
Smaragd wrote:
2Donkeys wrote:France pushes beyond even this as has been noted above.

Explain - or would you rather that Le Touquet closed over lunch?


Personally, I don't have a dog in the race. I speak French,

(my snip)

And aviation French too, I expect 2D? :D
I do agree with your sentiments.

I don't fly in Europe much more now (and more's the pity :cry: ); it's cheaper for me to fly in the US (present restrictions notwithstanding).

I know this has been done to death, but having a polite smattering of the local aviation lingo if going into the smaller aerodromes is a tremendous help to a better welcome.

I can understand why Le Touquet decides to close at lunchtime, and it's may be more to do with the non-ATC personnel who don't speak English (and why should they?)

Rob
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By townleyc
#1782537
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:
At least most use feet for altitudes and heights, there are some who use metres*


Don't the Russians use meters? and Americans use Inches!

KE
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By MichaelP
#1782538
I remember when heights on French half mils were in metres, and hohen were in feet on German charts.
The French changed from metres to feet in the late 70’s iirc.
I once flew in F BUDH with an altimeter in metres.

Russian altimeters are in metres with settings in mmhg, i.e. 760mmhg is 1013 is 29.92”.
In China the G1000 was set to read in metres, and flight levels were like FL 3300 metres...

Spinning a Yak 52 was from 130kph...

Just numbers.
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By Rob L
#1782539
Dave W wrote:But Le Touquet doesn't close at lunchtime. Only ATC does.

Fair enough.

So why do they need ATC at all?
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By kanga
#1782630
MichaelP wrote:..

It can be confusing at St Hubert near Montreal as both languages are used at the same time, and there have been incidents. Of course if you understand French you still have to listen very carefully as Quebecois is not the same, but they still say it only once...


.. and at Gatineau, just across the river from Ottawa. At the OFC we sometimes flew across to it for circuit bashing if Ottawa International was particularly busy (rare, fortunately). And yes, despite being happy in European (Swiss) French since childhood, and working in a majority francophone office in Ottawa, it took me quite a while to attune myself to spoken Quebecois, even in formulaic aeronautical exchanges.

AIUI, in Canada all Federal (including military) and designated international airports should offer ATC in either language, although I suspect few pilots request French in BC! But elsewhere, only one need be available. This means that in more isolated parts of Quebec, anglophone pilots should theoretically assume that others in the air and on the ground may be able to use only French; we used to warn visiting US pilots of this when cleared Customs in Ottawa and parked on the OFC apron overnight before continuing to some posh hunting lodge in Northern Quebec! They were openly incredulous. However, I never met a Canadian francophone in aviation who was not fully competent in English.

Happy to be corrected or brought up to date by MichaelP or others, of course.

[In the Canadian Federal Civil Service, all internal promotions are probationary, and dependent on passing a language test appropriate to the higher grade in one's less familiar official language; failure means the promotion is lost, but paid one-to-one language tuition/refresher is available. The higher the grade, the tougher the test, so that seniors should be completely bilingual. And all employees are entitled to supervision and appraisal in their familiar language, so in DND I was expected to be able to do both written reports and interviews in French for francophone subordinates and promotion or job applicants. Fair enough.

All public-facing Federal employees are meant to be competent in both languages nationwide. One of my francophone colleagues, perfectly bilingual, once returned from vacation; he was indignant that on arrival in Vancouver from the US he had spoken to Customs/Immigration in French, and was delayed while the officer sought a more competent colleague. He was making a point, but his indignation was justified]
By Rallye
#1782633
Rob L wrote:
Dave W wrote:But Le Touquet doesn't close at lunchtime. Only ATC does.

Fair enough.

So why do they need ATC at all?

In Belgium,a ATC (AFIS) is mandatory,otherwise the airfield is close.My opinion it is better for flight security,and i always try to arrive in the AFIS hours.They may help you with a lot of things (choice of runway,taxi,refueling,etc...)
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By skydriller
#1782649
kanga wrote:.. and must the service be trilingual (any of French/Flemish/English on pilot request) ?


I have certainly heard Brussels Info speaking to 2x pilots in a language that wasnt English or French one evening...
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