Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1779229
chevvron wrote:The people in Brussels clearly don't know the way we operate in the UK and sometimes change a word or two here and there or just reject the NOTAM; often the sponsor may not be aware this latter has happened.


What is your evidence for that?
#1779232
I agree that the Southampton NOTAM is less than clarity personified.

The AIP is the standard starting point for a flight briefing; NOTAMs are mainly to bring attention to when something is not as stated in the AIP. So the Southampton NOTAM should be stating exactly when the closure periods are, not what the reduced opening times are.

I'm surprised that the various NOTAM offices accepted this offering at all. It needs to be looked at from the perspective of a low-hours PPL, not from the perspective of an expert in gap-analysis. Making such notices accessible and meaningful is what it is all about.
Dave W, matthew_w100, Tim Dawson and 3 others liked this
#1779239
chevvron wrote:Don't forget nowadays that NOTAMs are sent to Brussels before being disseminated; the people in Brussels clearly don't know the way we operate in the UK and sometimes change a word or two here and there or just reject the NOTAM; often the sponsor may not be aware this latter has happened.


Really?

What does the panel think of this NOTAM for hours of operation for La Rochelle (Id say its pretty clear):

LFFA-A2361/20
Q) LFBB/QATCA/IV/NBO/AE/000/115/4605N00106W032
A) LFBH LA ROCHELLE ILE DE RE
B) 2020 Jun 01 00:00 C) 2020 Jun 30 23:59
E) LA ROCHELLE CTR AND TMA HOURS : 0630-1800
(OUTSIDE THESE HOURS CTR AND TMA RECLASSIFIED TO G CLASS)
Stampe liked this
#1779242
And then for added confusion we have this one:

B1353/20: Control area (CTA) : miscellaneous plain language
Q) EGTT/QAEXX/IV/NBO/AE/000/055/5050N00132W023
FOR PILOTS OPERATING OUTSIDE THE SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT
CTA NOT REQUIRING A SERVICE, PLEASE SQUAWK MONITOR 7011 AND MONITOR
SOLENT 120.230MHZ.
IF A TRANSIT OF THE SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR OR SOLENT CTA IS REQUIRED,
PLEASE REQUEST ON SOLENT 120.230MHZ, REMAINING OUTSIDE OF
CONTROLLED AIRSPACE UNTIL ATC CLEARANCE IS ISSUED.
AIRCRAFT OPERATING WEST OF A LINE STONEY CROSS-BEAULIEU-NEEDLES
SHOULD SQUAWK MONITOR 0011 AND MONITOR BOURNEMOUTH 119.475MHZ.
FOR AMENDED AIRSPACE OPENING TIMES REFER TO NOTAM COVID-19 B1349/20
AND C3397/20 FOR FURTHER INFORMATION. )
FROM: 15 Jun 2020 05:30 GMT (06:30 BST) TO: 30 Jun 2020 21:45 GMT (22:45 BST)

which appears to be a NOTAM instructing you do do...well - the bleeding obvious! "If you don't want a service, maintain a listening watch". Gosh. "If you want a transit, ask for a clearance and stay outside CAS till you get one". No ****, Sherlock! "From a point halfway between us and Bournemouth, talk to Bournemouth". Well, I'm glad you told me that.

I guess what they are doing is reallocating duties between Bournemouth, Solent and Southampton - talk to Solent rather than Southampton if you are below 2,000 in the east, and Bournemouth rather than Solent if you are above 2,000 in the west. But that is a guess and is probably wrong - I'm not familiar enough with the normal split there.

Anyway, hasn't this been going on long enough that there should be an AIC explaining it properly rather than a perpetually extended string of NOTAMS?
#1779267
chevvron wrote:Don't forget nowadays that NOTAMs are sent to Brussels before being disseminated; the people in Brussels clearly don't know the way we operate in the UK and sometimes change a word or two here and there or just reject the NOTAM; often the sponsor may not be aware this latter has happened.

When did that happen?
#1779393
In the old days Notam proposals were received in AIS in Pinner and were edited by the staff, the term used was “collect, collate, edit and disseminate”. Nav warnings were turned into Notam and were typed out onto a document called the A8 and posted out to flying clubs etc. The military had their own Notam which were mostly unedited. Most of the Notam were out of date by the time anyone looked at them, but everybody was happy. When computerisation came along, the military and civil Notam became amalgamated and the editing part was not allowed any more, they became Nav Warnings and not Notam. The originators were mostly serving or ex-military. More computerisation meant the Notam proposals were sent via EAD in Brussels and arrived untouched in AIS where they were then put into the system, mostly unedited if arrived correctly formatted. Any non-standard abbreviations could be changed. The role of “editing” a Notam had almost disappeared when I left over 10 years ago, this meant huge numbers could be sent out every day, there was certainly a focus on quantity and not quality.
CherokeePete, Stampe liked this
#1783681
Blimey - they have re-written it!

COVID-19 INFORMATION: SOLENT RADAR APP, SOUTHAMPTON RADAR APP AND
SOUTHAMPTON TWR HOURS OF SERVICE ARE NOW REDUCED TO 0600-1800 HR
SUN-FRI (TIMES MAY BE EXTENDED BY PPR TO 1900 HR) AND 0600-1400 SAT.
OUTSIDE REDUCED ATS HOURS OF SERVICE, SOUTHAMPTON CTR AND ALL SOLENT
CTA WILL BE DEACTIVATED AND AIRSPACE RECLASSIFIED CLASS G. INSIDE
ATS HOURS OF SERVICE SQUAWK 7011 AND MONITOR 120.230MHZ IS ADVISED
IN THE VICINITY OF THE SOUTHAMPTON ATZ/CTR AND SOLENT CTA WHEN NOT
RECEIVING A LOWER AIRSPACE SERVICE. AT ALL TIMES AIRCRAFT OPR WEST
OF A LINE STONEY CROSS-BEAULIEU-NEEDLES SHOULD SQUAWK MONITOR 0011
AND MONITOR BOURNEMOUTH 119.475 MHZ

That's comprehensible. Thanks, Southampton.
kanga, johnm liked this
#1783989
NATS Blog post from today with more info about the Southampton airspace operating schedule and the introduction of set times:
https://nats.aero/blog/2020/07/set-oper ... uthampton/