Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1782218
Indeedy.
By PaulisHome
#1782297
Lefty wrote:Pre-briefing what you will do in the event of an “unexpected event”, should be the last item of the Pre take-off checks on every takeoff.


Of course. I was trying to make the point that I've got a lot more specific about what height a turn back is feasible, when that's the only good option.

P
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By rf3flyer
#1783006
It has been 3 weeks since my first, rather disappointing attempt at exploring this but in that time I have given the whole thing some thought and yesterday I got to have a second go.

In post #1778500 Longfinal spoke about flying the manoeuvre at a much slower speed than the climb trim speed I accepted previously. That made a lot of sense to me as a slower speed will result in a smaller radius turn, a shorter path round the turn therefore less height loss.

So I planned to climb at my normal 60kts, cut to idle and, again, hands off the stick allow the pitch trim to maintain flight speed but, as we arced over into the descent I'd pull the trim fully aft. That would give a trimmed speed of 50kts or so, about 1.3 Vs0.

This is how it went:

    1 was in my climb out from take off. Continuing the 24 runway heading to 1000ft I cut power to idle. 20 seconds later we were pretty much round and straight on the reciprocal 06 approach. Altimeter reading 910ft. Height loss, 90 ft. Bank angle was a little less than 45°, probably about 40°.

    2 was initiated at 2200ft, same procedure as before re-trimming as we arced over. This time completion height was again 910 ft. Height loss, 110ft! Bank angle in this one was steeper, probably closer to 55°.

    3 began at 2000ft, bank angle about the same as in No2 and completion height 900ft. Height loss 100ft.
In all attempts time to reversal was within a second or two of 20 seconds.

This was much more what I had thought I and my little aeroplane might manage though I hope that in a real EFATO I would still be cautious about a turnback at very low heights.
By Dominie
#1783020
Just to be clear, rf3flyer, from your username I guess you're in a Fournier RF3 motorglider, aren't you? I'm sure that the characteristics of that are a lot more benign that the average GA aircraft. I recall someone on a YouTube film saying "of course you can turn back, it's easy" and demonstrating it, but he never pointed out that he was in a SF25B (IIRC).
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1783023
@rf3flyer

Thanks for sharing this with us.

I am pretty sure that your height loss will indeed be 100 ft or thereabouts in an RF3, which IIRC is classed as a motorglider?

Would you normally climb to 1000ft on the extended runway heading or turn? And what length of runway do you normally operate from?
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By rf3flyer
#1783118
@Dominie Yes, Im flying a RF3. My last post was a continuation of my earlier #1778372 where I was open about the type I was flying, and it's glide ratio, as I was open about the reasons for flying the tests in my follow up post #1778446.

I'm not claiming it's easy and from my earlier performance clearly it's not. But it was intriguing enough for me to go see for myself and thought provoking enough to have improved my performance and my experience in such a situation.

@Flyin'Dutch' Would I normally climb to 1000ft on the extended runway heading or turn?
No, I'd turn, unless my desired heading happened to coincide with the runway orientation. But the point of continuing to 1000ft was that I felt that would be a safe height at which to explore the manoeuvre while the runway I had just left would be definitive visual proof that I had indeed made the +225° -45° turn back.
Later use of higher initiation heights was to not alarm the populace below. These were made above a straight stretch of railway line, again for visual alignment without having to rely on a whisky compass sloshing about in its glass.

"...what length of runway do you normally operate from?"
900m grass. About 5 or 6 times more than I need.
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