[DavidHLJ]

Hi all

Where are we now with cheap replacement autopilots?

If your PA28 legacy a/p failed a few years ago the only option were S-Tec as the only game in town, with their horrendously expensive 30 + 55.

Then came Garmin with the GFC500, coupled to a G5, which shook the market up nicely.

And Trutrak, with the Aerocruze, even cheaper. Has anyone installed a Trutrak on a PA28?

Has anyone with a PA28 made the change to the Garmin or Trutrak? Was it worth it? Or is there another option I've missed? How much did it cost in the end?

I think the time may have come for a switch...

[JodelDavo]

I found the TruTrak unit I used in an LAA type a bit difficult to get my head around (can't remember the model). The controls were not intuitive like a Garmin or S-TEC unit and I needed the crib sheet I made up for all the different functions.

[Oldfart]

GFC500 with two G5’s brilliant set up if you can afford it.
With deeper pockets add the full glass, and integrated engine management display.

[GrahamB]

Trio are getting a reasonable rap in the US, but when/if an EASA STC happens is an open question.

[PA28]

Another vote for two G5s and a GFC500. My aircraft has a stec 50 coupled to a GNS430 but can only do Alt hold. The Garmin set up is way better. Have flown a C182 and two C172s and would love to fit this setup to my aircraft. It is so capable and easy to use.

[DavidHLJ]

Thanks PA28, do you have a ball park figure for 2 x G5 plus GFC500, installed? I'm guessing well into 5 figures......?

[PA28]

I will find out. Do you have a GNS 430W or GTN650/750 or Avidyne already to drive them?

[Oldfart]

For a Cessna182Q with a G430W already fitted. My Group has had quotes of £15- 18000 For a fully coupled system . 2 G5’s and GFC500. We would also remove the vacuum system as our backup horizon is electric.
Not cheap, but a formidable bit of kit.

[DavidHLJ]

No panel GPS, sadly. But for a simple DI heading bug I wouldn't require one, would I? Although obviously it would be a major plus, for flight plans etc.

[G-BLEW]

No panel GPS, sadly. But for a simple DI heading bug I wouldn't require one, would I? Although obviously it would be a major plus, for flight plans etc.

IIRC, without a WAAS/SBAS GPS and its terrain database you don't have the ESP (Electronic Stability and Protection) system.

For my type of flying at least (VFR/IFR Touring/Bimbling mix) I would prioritise spend on a good panel mounted GPS*.

Ian
*Yes, I do have a 530W to sell, but that's not why I wrote that

[reubeno]

Just picking up on this thread, as the original AutoControl in our Piper Arrow has gone inop.

Aside from the Garmin GFC500, are there any others that are available for certified aircraft in the UK? I see there is the AeroCruze 100 Basic Autopilot, but I can't see any mention of EASA (pre-Brexit) or CAA certification.

A couple of G5's, GFC500 coupled to the GPS would be nice, but our G430 is non-WAAS, so when you start adding it all up, it gets rather expensive!

So for now, just wondering what the options are for a modern, but basic autopilot to replace the original.

Thanks!

[GrahamB]

A couple of G5's, GFC500 coupled to the GPS would be nice, but our G430 is non-WAAS, so when you start adding it all up, it gets rather expensive!

You can install a G5/GFC500 combo with a non-WAAS 430, but youll have to use the internal G5 GPS receiver with a separate antenna.

[reubeno]

Thanks Graham. We have a WAAS / Certified GPS in a Garmin 335 with its own external antenna, so assume we could use that then? But how does that work with the 430, if you want to couple the 430 to the GFC500, doesn't the 430 have to take an external feed of position information. Hopefully we wouldn't need yet another antenna on the roof!

[GrahamB]

Thanks Graham. We have a WAAS / Certified GPS in a Garmin 335 with its own external antenna, so assume we could use that then? But how does that work with the 430, if you want to couple the 430 to the GFC500, doesn't the 430 have to take an external feed of position information. Hopefully we wouldn't need yet another antenna on the roof!

It needs someone better qualified than me to comment authoritatively on this, but the 430 is its own position source, but non-WAAS. The 430 would be interfaced to the G5/GFC500 to provide the NAV input for VOR and GPS tracking, and approach functionality for ILS/LOC and LNAV approaches.

I don't believe a non-WAAS 430 can suddenly become one by connecting to a WAAS source as there is much more going on inside, aside from the certification for WAAS and non-WAAS navigators being to completely different standards.

However, I believe it's feasible that the 335 may be used as the source of WAAS position for the G5, rather than the 430, so saves the external antenna, but that won't play any part in the NAV/APR functionality that the 430 could provide to the G5/GFC500 set-up.

[Oldfart]

We are in the process of having a dual G5/GFC 500/Autotrim fit in our 1980 Cessna F182Q. We had a G430 fit initially and had the set upgraded to G430W standard by RGV at Cheltenham couple of years ago.
As mentioned in a previous post it is quite an extensive mod. Almost all new internals, and an upgraded GPS aerial and cable.
Noticeably quicker software on return. I presume the W mod is required to carry out RNP and specifically LPV approaches with the G5/GFC500.
The mod quickly and efficiently done at Cheltenham, who also provided a free temporary G430 loaner while our set was in the shop. (I think about £2000 ish)
We had thought of replacing the 430W with a GTN 650 or 750. But other than the newer sets enabling the VNAV function on the GFC 500, we baulked at the £££££.
The G430W still provides a reliable platform for the occasional IFR flying we envisage.

Let's hope that the CAA can resist "Gold Plating" any future FAA/EASA STC as above, ex Brexit! Pie in the sky?