Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By jbmoens
#1771513
Hi,

I am considering buying a N-reg aircraft that is already in the UK. I am a EU citizen living in the UK with a PPL + IR(R). I would like to fly the plane in the UK (VFR+IFR) and in Europe (VFR).

Is this possible? I have read you need a US Trust - can someone give me more information about this?
If the above is not possible: should I move the plane to a G-reg, and how much would that cost me (roughly)?

JB
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By G-BLEW
#1771519
jbmoens wrote:Hi,

I am considering buying a N-reg aircraft that is already in the UK. I am a EU citizen living in the UK with a PPL + IR(R). I would like to fly the plane in the UK (VFR+IFR) and in Europe (VFR).

Is this possible? I have read you need a US Trust - can someone give me more information about this?
If the above is not possible: should I move the plane to a G-reg, and how much would that cost me (roughly)?

JB


Short version
- Yes you need a trust
- Yes you can fly in the UK
- If you want yo fly outside the UK you'll need an FAA licence and BFR
- Moving from N to G will be slightly less painful than filling your underwear with fire ants

HTH

Ian
Colonel Panic liked this
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By Flyingfemme
#1771571
Read carefully everything the Bossman (G-BLEW) said.

The older the aircraft is, and the more modifications and changes it has had during its life, the more difficult and expensive the conversion will be. For some old aircraft it is simply not possible.

Also be careful of the VAT status and make sure you have documentary proof of the VAT being paid at some point (and not being claimed back) before you buy it.
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By Iceman
#1771581
There aren’t many FAA IAs in Europe who can perform the necessary inspections to do the transition of the aircraft on to the N-reg. I had to get a guy from Germany to do the TB20. He doesn’t take any prisoners and if the paperwork trail isn’t perfect, he walks away and I seem to recall that you end up paying another £1500 for a second visit.

Iceman 8)
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By GrahamB
#1771586
Iceman wrote:There aren’t many FAA IAs in Europe who can perform the necessary inspections to do the transition of the aircraft on to the N-reg.


:?: According to the OP the aircraft is already on the N-reg.
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By gyrotyro
#1771599
Regarding VAT on "N" reg aircraft.

If the aircraft was manufactured before 1971 (when VAT was introduced) then VAT does not need to be paid. I have this in person from HMRC when I went to pay VAT on a 1969 aircraft. I initially paid them the VAT and they actually refunded me the money as it was not required.
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By Flyingfemme
#1771689
Not quite the full story.....if the aircraft was imported into the EU before VAT descended, then it would be considered "VAT paid". But there are plenty of ways that VAT can be required to be paid more than once on the same aircraft.............
ALWAYS GET THE FULL VAT PAPERTRAIL!
G-BLEW liked this
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By irishc180
#1771798
The trust is easy and not that expensive at 450 stg pa from Southern Aircraft. I'm sure the seller would be happy to work through the proofs he has on the VAT status to put you at ease. You will need an FCC radio station licence valid for ten years which the trust can do. Each 24 months you will have to do 91.411 and 91.413 checks at a FAA Repair Station for Pitot Static and Encoder if you want to fly it IFR. Similarly you will need to keep your ELT battery in date, and a 30 day log entry for VOR accuracy.

If the N reg aircraft in question is already in a trust you need the trust to have turned it over to the seller prior to closing. It's just a technicality, but the seller should only sign the bill of sale to you, after the trust has signed a bill of sale to them. Many people, even big names in the industry, have no clue about N reg matters. I'm not holding myself up as an expert but I know lots of the nuances and potential pitfalls. The FAA DAR who came from France to do two aircraft for us in Jan thought I should come and work for him...

Pm me if you need anything :D
By jbmoens
#1772292
Thank you for the very helpful information and private messages (for some forum rules, I can't reply/send messages myself, apologies).

Digging further, the aircraft started its life on a N-reg, then became G-reg'ed, and then moved to an N-reg again in 2008. Would this facilitate another move back onto a G-reg? I understand that there might be some ADs, etc. that I need to check.

Would that also reduce the chances of having to pay VAT in the UK? I understand that I need to fully check the VAT trail, I am just assessing my chances that this might work before looking into this in detail (once the lockdown is lifted).

Again, thanks for all the support!