Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1770885
BoeingBoy wrote:I'm so sick and tired of splitting words on here and Facebook. GA was never banned but try telling that to the Daily Mail if things go wrong.


I understand what you're saying, I do, But...

The trouble is mate, that you have categorically said something else as if it WERE fact... The more this kind of false info gets pushed around social media, the more people, including the press, dont understand the facts, and that IS the problem should something go wrong. Its as if some people really want to make things harder just to spite themselves, the problem being it often then affects other too.

A recent first class example is Boris' declaration to the nation the other day.
I understood it, my family understood it... and we dont even live in the UK...
Then it was as if the media and other (opposition funily enough) politicians thought if they could say "this is confusing" enough times then it would be confusing and so they would be right and so the theme went on...specificly not helped by the regions then making a political decision to not get on board.

Regards, SD..
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#1770960
BoeingBoy wrote:I'm so sick and tired of splitting words on here and Facebook. GA was never banned but try telling that to the Daily Mail if things go wrong.


And I'm sick and tired of people saying stuff that categorically isn't true. Aviation is an industry where accuracy is important.

I sincerely hope that most people do not live their lives based on what they feel will please Daily Mail readers.
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#1771087
So I was actually at the foot of Snowden today and it would of been a great day for flying instead of working. Does wales own thier airspace and ha e actual authority to stop you entering? Again purely theoretical. I guess if you landed you could be fined by local plod but just flying over Welsh airspace is there any actual legalities to back it up?
#1771630
And I'm sick and tired of people saying stuff that categorically isn't true. Aviation is an industry where accuracy is important.


I wasn't going to bother getting any further involved in this but as I regard Mr Dawson's post as patronising in the extreme given that I've been in the the Aviation industry for fifty one years and been professional in it for over forty of them I'll take the time to define my reason for the use of the word 'Banned'.

Let's look at the Google Dictionary definition of the word:

Ban [ban ]

Verb (used with object),
banned, ban·ning.
to prohibit, forbid, or bar; interdict:
to ban nuclear weapons; The dictator banned all newspapers and books that criticized his regime.

Archaic.
to pronounce an ecclesiastical curse upon.
to curse; execrate.

Noun
the act of prohibiting by law; interdiction.
Informal denunciation or prohibition, as by public opinion:
society's ban on racial discrimination.

Law.
a proclamation.
a public condemnation.
Ecclesiastical. a formal condemnation; excommunication.
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My comment that aviation in the regions is currently 'Banned' is defined by the reasons in bold print. As has been discussed ad nauseum Recreational GA in the regions is not banned by law but by the travel restrictions placed upon us by lock down rules. Adherence to them is socially accepted as current public behaviour. Therefore GA is banned by Informal denunciation and public opinion.

As for flying over Wales and the other regions then I'm afraid that whilst it could be argued that overflight is not contravening any 'law' it's most certainly contravening public opinion and therefore open to denunciation within mainstream and social media.

I trust that's being 'accurate' enough for you Mr Dawson.
#1771823
BoeingBoy wrote:lved in this but as I regard Mr Dawson's post as patronising in the extreme given that I've been in the the Aviation industry for fifty one years and been professional in it for over forty of them I'll take the time to define my reason for the use of the word 'Banned'.


It's a shame your extensive experience hasn't stopped you from making misleading statements as if they are fact. You just keep digging your hole.

Maybe it's better to say nothing if you can't say anything constructive?
#1772033
Yay! Just to lighten the tone of this increasingly scratchy thread:
The old girl's back at Knettishall after a rather protracted two-man socially distanced Annual and surviving the dreaded Piper Arrow main wingspar attachment AD /SB inspection .
Thanks to group members Steve and Robert79 for the logistics and Robert for the pic.

Image

Just got to dust off the headset and the muscle memory and get some flying in.
Hopefully you Scotch lot will get airborne soon, once the Ginger Pixie gets her act together.

oh, and there's a share for sale: (see 'Groups/Sharing') :thumleft:

Peter :wink:
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#1772273
BoeingBoy wrote:
Go on I'll bite, can we take off from england and over fly wales, scotland and NI?


Recreational GA is banned in the regions so no, you cannot overfly the airspace for that purpose. Yes, for maintenance and health flights and of course commercial transport and aircraft carrying out aerial work would be fine.

Mind you that hasn't stopped a few people I've seen wandering around Snowdonia at a time when the park is closed and the Police are turning people away and issuing fines. Great PR Guys....Well Done!

As I posted elsewhere, I'm told the The Welsh Office are watching FR24 keenly and asking for clarification if they see aircraft over Welsh airspace so it's best not to antagonize them right now.


The management of airspace in the UK is a national responsibility of the UK Government and is not devolved to the Regions. As flight has never been banned by the CAA, only guidance issued, there is nothing to legally stop a GA flight overflying any airspace within the UK FIR.

Whilst I wouldn’t suggest doing so for sensitivity’s sake, any flight that doesn’t involve touching down in a Region where essential travel is more constrained than the departure airfield is not illegal and the Regional assemblies or Parliaments have no jurisdiction.
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#1774194
This from AOPA UK today:
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Differences between devolved parts of the UK:

Because each devolved legislature is able to set different restrictions, where these are within their devolved powers, it has been impossible to achieve a level playing field for the whole of the UK.

Fortunately, the CAA is the single regulator for the whole of the UK, so none of their powers have been devolved. Airspace over England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales is UK Airspace. Therefore, unless stated otherwise by the CAA, their official publications apply to the whole of the UK. However, some Police Forces may not understand this distinction, so it would be sensible to have copies of CAA publications to hand if you intend to make use of any alleviation's and you think that your local Police may not understand you are acting lawfully.
Differences between devolved parts of the UK:

Because each devolved legislature is able to set different restrictions, where these are within their devolved powers, it has been impossible to achieve a level playing field for the whole of the UK.

Fortunately, the CAA is the single regulator for the whole of the UK, so none of their powers have been devolved. Airspace over England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales is UK Airspace. Therefore, unless stated otherwise by the CAA, their official publications apply to the whole of the UK. However, some Police Forces may not understand this distinction, so it would be sensible to have copies of CAA publications to hand if you intend to make use of any alleviation's and you think that your local Police may not understand you are acting lawfully.

Key Points:
Anything issued by the CAA is applicable to the whole of the UK as aviation matters have not been devolved. Therefore essential maintenance flights conducted under the CAA guidance may be carried out in all parts of the UK.

The lifting of Recreational flying restrictions issued by the DfT only apply to England. AOPA have been in contact with the DfT seeking alignment across the UK.

Commercial Flight Training guidance should be applicable to the whole of the UK as it has been issued by the CAA. However, some devolved regions have imposed travel restrictions that make this difficult. AOPA have been in contact with the DfT seeking alignment across the UK.

Please let AOPA know if you are experiencing issues in your UK country, using Ask AOPA.
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I not aware of what the DfT had to to do to allow GA to commence in England. Was it to declare GA a recreational activity? In which case I guess until Wales officially goes into its Amber phase which allows unrestricted travel for leisure purposes (Including GA) recreational flying is still prohibited/inhibited/banned/discouraged/Generally not welcomed.........(Delete according to your preference).
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Last edited by BoeingBoy on Wed Jun 03, 2020 7:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
#1774429
There has been a lot of confusion on this, and as far as I know various airports still aren't allowing recreational flights, but I've had the following forwarded to me from Transport Scotland.

Basically - so long as the other guidance is adhered to, it can be treated in the same way as other sports (which is what everyone has been saying anyway) with other advice the same as England (with regards training flights, etc) as they link to the DofT advice.
My bold and highlight.


All

Further to my previous correspondence with some of you, this is to provide an update on the position in relation to General Aviation in Scotland. As you will be aware, Scotland has now entered Phase 1 of the Scottish Government’s ‘Coronavirus (Covid-19): framework for decision making’. Further details of this can be found on the Scottish Government web site at:

https://www.gov.scot/publications/coron ... e/pages/3/

As part of entering into Phase 1, we are now able to undertake activities that were not previously permitted. This includes non-contact, outdoor activities in your local area. While the guidance refers to golf, hiking, canoeing, outdoor swimming and angling this is not an exhaustive list. Other activities are permitted provided that they are undertaken in a way that is consistent with the rules and guidance that are applicable to any activity in this phase e.g. maintaining physical distancing requirements and staying within a short distance of your local community (broadly within 5 miles). Therefore any private flying must be carried out in a way that ensures all rules and guidance that are applicable to Phase 1 are complied with.

The Scottish Government will not be publishing specific guidance in relation to General Aviation. The Department for Transport has, however, published guidance that you may wish to be aware of. This can be viewed at:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... l-aviation

Any decision to open an individual airfield is a matter for the operator of that airfield.

Yours sincerely

Michael Bratcher
__________________
Michael Bratcher
Aviation Policy
Transport Scotland

Area 2D (N)
Victoria Quay
Edinburgh
EH6 6QQ
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