It would be interesting to compare the duties and responsibilities of UK FISOs and their French and German counterparts.
There must be some significant differences as we don’t seem to have difficulty accepting the concept in those countries.
GrahamB wrote:It would be interesting to compare the duties and responsibilities of UK FISOs and their French and German counterparts.
There must be some significant differences as we don’t seem to have difficulty accepting the concept in those countries.
GrahamB wrote:It would be interesting to compare the duties and responsibilities of UK FISOs and their French and German counterparts.
There must be some significant differences as we don’t seem to have difficulty accepting the concept in those countries.
GrahamB wrote:It would be interesting to compare the duties and responsibilities of UK FISOs and their French and German counterparts.
There must be some significant differences as we don’t seem to have difficulty accepting the concept in those countries.
chevvron wrote:foxmoth wrote:We are talking about FISOs here - I think you will find that “Land after” is only allowed at fields with a full Air Traffic service, the same generally for formation landings.
It IS actually possible to do formation landings at fields without full ATC but this requires an exemption from the CAA.
It's not 'land after' the FISO simply treats the formation as a single aircraft eg 'Blades Formation, land at your discretion'.
TLRippon wrote:When a FISO tells me to “Report lined up”. I take that to mean “I know you are at the hold and ready for departure but I can’t see the end of the runway from the tower so I’d like to know when you cross the hold so I can say take off at your discretion”.
foxmoth wrote:chevvron wrote:foxmoth wrote:We are talking about FISOs here - I think you will find that “Land after” is only allowed at fields with a full Air Traffic service, the same generally for formation landings.
It IS actually possible to do formation landings at fields without full ATC but this requires an exemption from the CAA.
It's not 'land after' the FISO simply treats the formation as a single aircraft eg 'Blades Formation, land at your discretion'.
I was not saying that a formation is “Land after”, that is for an aircraft landing after another as at LGW. What I was saying is that for formations you need either full ATC or a CAA exemption (which I think you will find the Blades have)
Ibra wrote:
A bit off topic, if you have ATC ATZ in Class G, before getting formation landing clearance, do you also need split/join clearance? this seems to be the case for formation transits of Class D with radar ATC, one will have to request split/join and maintain 0.5nm/100ft all the times while in formation
We had a chance to try at Lands End but the arrival was fiasco and they had Twin Otters inbound, so each aircraft just made it's own RT call and join/land
Ibra wrote:A bit off topic, if you have ATC ATZ in Class G, before getting formation landing clearance, do you also need split/join clearance? this seems to be the case for formation transits of Class D with radar ATC, one will have to request split/join and maintain 0.5nm/100ft all the times while in formation
chevvron wrote:Once you are 'accepted' as a formation, (in the form of a reply to your initial call from the ATSU 'XXX formation pass your message') you should be treated as a single aircraft by both ATCOs and FISOs although I have to admit some ATCOs/FISOs seem to be unaware of this as it happens so rarely at their airfield.
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:From this thread it would seem there are even FISOs who don't know the rules for things that happen every day.
Just saying