Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Rich V
#1765272
@GBLEW Ian I'm somewhat miffed at this announcement, for a number of reasons.

I accept I'm a bit of a sad anorak as I have purchased (mostly on subscription), and indeed still have, every single copy of Flyer mag since issue no1, published long before Seager Publishing acquired the title. I shall definitely miss having a hard copy. I also accept that I am a techno-phobe & techno-numpty dinosaur (I do not do online banking, contactless cards, Facebook, Twitter ...) and the idea of reading a magazine on a 5inch smartphone or 8inch tablet does not exactly thrill me. That aside:

Just two days ago I renewed by phone call my subscription, in advance, at £35.95 wef the August issue; I may have misunderstood but I came away from that conversation believing I was told that in addition a 'free digital copy' would be part of that renewal. In addition, not instead of. That seems now not to be the case.

The email from Ed earlier today does not make it clear that subscribers will not get a hard copy in future; indeed I can see no mention of that at all! It only refers to not “clogging up distribution channels” so from that I inferred that subscription copies mailed direct would continue, and only retail copies in WH Smith etc would be affected. From earlier postings on this thread it appears I am not alone in that inference.

Now it seems the only benefit to me of subscribing is the free landing fees, for destinations which are, quite reasonably, spread geographically across the country. Frankly I have found I rarely use them, partly because I fly a Champ which has many attributes, but regular / frequent long-distance touring in UK weather is not exactly one of them. Most of the other 'benefits' listed I can do without eg virtual meet-ups, exclusive discounts etc.

“Access to the club's members only zone on the website”. Is that code for: the Forum will become members only? In the context of today's misleading email, I suspect it may well be so. Especially as the Club offer of “invites to real meet-ups when we're all flying again” is already covered by the 'sticky' thread on the forum “fly and meet up – tell us where you're going!”. I hope I'm wrong. Going members-only worked really well on the LAA Forum. Not.

That'll do for now, from me. A bit of a rant, for sure, and I may be in a minority of one – but as you can gather, I ain't 'appy!

Rich
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By timjenner
#1765276
G-BLEW wrote:If you PM me your address, I'll grab some back issues to keep her busy next time I pop to the office.


Thanks for the kind offer, Ian, but as a subscriber (and bit of a hoarder) I still have a reasonably healthy supply for the time being!
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By G-BLEW
#1765277
Hi Rich

My embedded replies in italics

Rich V wrote:@GBLEW Ian I'm somewhat miffed at this announcement, for a number of reasons.

I accept I'm a bit of a sad anorak as I have purchased (mostly on subscription), and indeed still have, every single copy of Flyer mag since issue no1, published long before Seager Publishing acquired the title. I shall definitely miss having a hard copy. I also accept that I am a techno-phobe & techno-numpty dinosaur (I do not do online banking, contactless cards, Facebook, Twitter ...) and the idea of reading a magazine on a 5inch smartphone or 8inch tablet does not exactly thrill me. That aside:

May I genuinely thank you for your loyal support over the years, itl;s very much appreciated. I think the mag was maybe a year or two old when I bought it in 1994

Just two days ago I renewed by phone call my subscription, in advance, at £35.95 wef the August issue; I may have misunderstood but I came away from that conversation believing I was told that in addition a 'free digital copy' would be part of that renewal. In addition, not instead of. That seems now not to be the case.

Apologies for that, there may have been some internal comms issues, but the announcement was made today. We will of course be happy to refund yo in full should you not want to become a member of The Flyer Club.

The email from Ed earlier today does not make it clear that subscribers will not get a hard copy in future; indeed I can see no mention of that at all! It only refers to not “clogging up distribution channels” so from that I inferred that subscription copies mailed direct would continue, and only retail copies in WH Smith etc would be affected. From earlier postings on this thread it appears I am not alone in that inference.

I'm sorry about this, there was no intention to mislead. I know you don't do Facebook, but we'll be running a 'Facebook Live' event sometime on Friday (TBD) to answer any questions (as I'll try to do here). If you'd rather talk it through on the phone, PNM me a number and a convenient time and I'll give you a call.

Now it seems the only benefit to me of subscribing is the free landing fees, for destinations which are, quite reasonably, spread geographically across the country. Frankly I have found I rarely use them, partly because I fly a Champ which has many attributes, but regular / frequent long-distance touring in UK weather is not exactly one of them. Most of the other 'benefits' listed I can do without eg virtual meet-ups, exclusive discounts etc.

“Access to the club's members only zone on the website”. Is that code for: the Forum will become members only? In the context of today's misleading email, I suspect it may well be so. Especially as the Club offer of “invites to real meet-ups when we're all flying again” is already covered by the 'sticky' thread on the forum “fly and meet up – tell us where you're going!”. I hope I'm wrong. Going members-only worked really well on the LAA Forum. Not.

The forum will not be in the members area.

That'll do for now, from me. A bit of a rant, for sure, and I may be in a minority of one – but as you can gather, I ain't 'appy!

We're doing the best we can to adapt to this extraordinary situation. I know that may make some people unhappy, but doing nothing is not really an option.

Rich
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By Rich V
#1765287
Ian: I thank you for the prompt and courteous reply - which is exactly what I would expect from you. I am very much in favour of what you have done with the magazine over the years (26 :shock: ), and indeed are doing at the moment for example with the video interviews etc. in these exceptional times.

I'm very pleased to learn that the forum will remain open access; although I don't post there very often, I do access it regularly. It's an excellent resource.

As far as the digital magazine goes, I shall keep an open mind and see how things evolve, and I shall certainly let my 'membership' continue for now.
ATB
Rich
By masterofnone
#1765304
For what it's worth, I think this is a great idea, one that will see me re-subscribing.

I used to subscribe to Flyer and Pilot. My biggest beef, and what made me cancel my subscriptions was that I was drowning in magazines (still am...I couldn't bring myself to throw them out...I know someone somewhere would take enjoyment from them)

I'd much rather consume any magazine in electronic form, especially if it gives me access to an (ideally searchable) back catalogue.

It's a brave, and I think sensible decision Ian. You won't please everybody, but I hope it brings you success :thumright:
By MachFlyer
#1765307
G-BLEW wrote:
MachFlyer wrote:Hi Ian
I currently subscribe through Amazon (just flyer magazine not the multi mags thing they do). As a consequence I never receive any emails from yourselves. Is it possible to receive update emails from you? Happy to keep with Amazon subscription which renewed not long ago?


Yes, Amazon (I guess logically), think of you as their customer and will not supply us with your details. If you can email me your details, I will make sure that you are added to the membership database, and therefore you will receive information and personalised landing fees etc.

Thanks

Ian
PS ics at seager dot aero


Thanks Ian, email sent :thumright:
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By PeteSpencer
#1765340
Weii, despite my long-standing aversion to reading stuff on the small screen, I could be tempted back:

Please let me know when the subscription club is up and running.

Peter :wink:
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By G-BLEW
#1765342
PeteSpencer wrote:Weii, despite my long-standing aversion to reading stuff on the small screen, I could be tempted back:

Please let me know when the subscription club is up and running.

Peter :wink:


Wilco thanks, it will be with us soon with some exciting new benefits.

Ian
By cockney steve
#1765344
I am another unhappy subscriber, but ,hey-ho, changing times , unprecedented conditions etc. but what about the present supply-chain?
Paper, ink isopropanol and other consumables suppliers and manufacturers, the packaging-film and, of course the Royal Mail (or is it just the post-office nowadays? )

Seriously, though, If it's such a level of concern, I have a ready solution.

Ever since Colour Laser-printers started to appear on Ebay, in volume, I ditched the ever-clogging ink-printer and went to all-in ones (printer/fax/scanner/copier ) refilled cartridges are cheap and eco-friendly they don't clog -up if used infrequently and work-rounds are readily available to defeat the use-limited life on consumables.

So, there you are, whingers!- buy a used laser (currently using a free HP office- machine which was literally thrown out, complete with almost full OE toners! Paper from the supermarket,~£2 .50 a ream. Print your own Flyer-mag, about 2p a page.

Meanwhile i'll see if I can put up with reading the mag off my ancient 21" CRT monitor.
Don't do "smartphones" (Nokia 3310 works and doesn't cost £ many hundreds) not twoface book or any of this tweety stuff (that's strictly for the birds) Was given an i-pad 2 -hate the touch-screen thing so never use it.
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By eltonioni
#1765359
Being from a family with a century of newsagentery behind it I always buy a physical copy to support the whole supply chain and the local businesses that support local communities. Those days are just about gone so I'm very sad but the future is written in the stars, not buried in the ground.

Good move Ian. Garlic bread.
By neaton
#1765401
I'm quite disappointed by this move. I guess the electronic edition being free is to avoid the minefield that is DRM, but it makes my subscription (as a non-current pilot) effectively worthless.

I enjoy the magazine, and would have been happy to pay for the electronic version, but if I can get it for free why would I? I could do it out of the goodness of my heart, I suppose, but here in the real world that's a difficult decision to justify. I've (with some regret) cancelled my subscription.

I hope that advertising revenue will make some contribution to your coffers, G-BLEW.

I shall now submerge again.
User avatar
By G-BLEW
#1765408
neaton wrote:I'm quite disappointed by this move. I guess the electronic edition being free is to avoid the minefield that is DRM, but it makes my subscription (as a non-current pilot) effectively worthless.

I enjoy the magazine, and would have been happy to pay for the electronic version, but if I can get it for free why would I? I could do it out of the goodness of my heart, I suppose, but here in the real world that's a difficult decision to justify. I've (with some regret) cancelled my subscription.

I hope that advertising revenue will make some contribution to your coffers, G-BLEW.

I shall now submerge again.


Thanks, understood. To answer your question

would have been happy to pay for the electronic version, but if I can get it for free why would I?


We aim to make membership of The Flyer Club compelling, and excellent value at what works out to be effectively £2.50 a month. Membership will be the only way to take advantage of the Free Landing Fees, plus there will be exclusive weather content from Dr Simon Keeling, additional material and a host of discounts. We understand that some people no longer fly, and that some people just don't want to belong to the club, and that's why we're more than happy to make a free copy available too (just register here.

Many thanks for your support, and I hope you continue to enjoy the content, free or otherwise.

Ian
By robert79
#1765457
Not a subscriber but pick up the occassional copy from the shops.
I've tried several online versions of newspapers and magazines and dislike them. Aside from staring at another screen, it's difficult to absorb information and precludes idly browsing photographs whilst reading the text, or referring back to photos - say when there's a cockpit phot and reference to it in the article.
So I'm sorry to say to Iwon't be reading Flyer any longer. I might actually take out a subscription with the competition, purely to encourage retention of at least one paper based GA focussed mag.

Wish you all the best of course, and maybe you had no other option but it's a no from me.
By djtaylor
#1765464
I have to say that I prefer the printed word, I only read the digital edition when we are holiday but then I read the printed one on return to find out what I missed on screen. I understand the reasoning but I will miss adding the magazine to my collection which begins with issue one. Somehow things on screen seem to have less intrinsic value but then I too like paper charts.
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By derekf
#1765470
I've switched most of my print media (including The Times and the Jersey Evening Post) to digital over the years (makes it so much easier to read anything anywhere anytime) and I'd been meaning to convert Flyer to digital for years so this helps me along! I find different apps may have slightly different ways of viewing for how I like to read them, but for me the pros outweigh the cons with migration to digital for me.

Fully understand why it needs to be done and wish Ian and the team good luck with this new approach (which I expect will be the way of more and more printed media)
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