Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By Dave W
#1754706
@Pete L: It won't keep him off choccy bics; rather it'll leave him with the cold and leaking tent next time he decides to cycle to exotic far away places.

We wouldn't want that on our conscience, I say.
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By stevelup
#1754757
PeteSpencer wrote:Cancelled my long-standing sub a few years ago . One flying mag in the house is enough


It's £7.50 a quarter...

I'm sorry Pete, but I think it’s a bit of a cheek publicly stating that you buy the other magazine whilst benefiting from the forums here.
Last edited by stevelup on Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rob P, JAFO, Flyin'Dutch' and 5 others liked this
By MikeE
#1754782
Dave W wrote:@Edward Bellamy, what should happen in a circumstance where (for example) an alleged infringer claims that an ambiguous clearance or statement by an ATS provider was made?

...

There is no apparent way in CAP1404* of differentiating between an error and a mistake:
  • Mistake - Usually accidental. You know it’s wrong.
  • Error - Usually made due to the lack of knowledge. So, the action was wrong because it was different from the rules. The lack of knowledge may be due to ignorance, or it may be due to a misunderstanding. If the latter, it's very important to know why the misunderstanding occurred because lessons may need to be learned to avoid others misunderstanding it too.


,,,


There are different interpretations of 'error' and 'mistake', and they are often used interchangeably, including an the aviation context. This is a summary of what I have found (included in a paper I produced):

It is first important to understand what we mean by ‘error’ in the context of aviation human factors. With apologies for restating what most people already understand, very simply an error can be considered as:
“a planned sequence of mental or physical activities that fails to achieve its intended outcome”

1. Errors can come in two forms:

‘slip’ – incorrect execution of the plan ie where action is taken but it is not correct usually due to attentional or perceptual failures

‘lapse’ – failure to execute the plan, usually due to memory failure

2. ‘Mistakes’ occur as a result of failure in the planning phase ie where a person intends to carry out an action, does so correctly but the action is inappropriate and the desired goal is not achieved

3. So when a pilot closes the mixture control lever instead of the throttle lever, that is a slip. When they forget to select landing gear down, that is a lapse. Where they wish to fly to airfield A but when planning enter airfield B into Skydemon (other software is available) and then arrive at airfield B, that is a mistake.

There are, as always, alternative interpretations...

Best wishes

Mike
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By Edward Bellamy
#1754789
@Edward Bellamy, what should happen in a circumstance where (for example) an alleged infringer claims that an ambiguous clearance or statement by an ATS provider was made?


@Dave W

Dave - keeping it fairly brief and non-specific, my thoughts...

If someone is aware of incident when it takes place (ie not reported 'after the fact'), and the pilot genuinely felt an instruction was ambiguous or there was some safety issue with the ATS being provided, then the option to tell their side of the story is always available by filing their own MOR.

In terms of process and evidence - MORs serve the purpose of getting something (ie a safety event) into the reporting system. That the report itself is confidential is reasonable.

However I believe that once that event has transitioned into an investigation and a question as to whether sanction or retraining should be applied, the relevant evidence of error, mistake, guilt etc (whatever you want to call it) should be made available to all those involved. Personal / ideal world view...
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By PeteSpencer
#1754794
Tim Dawson wrote:It's one thing to choose magazine B over magazine A.

It's quite another to publicly post on magazine A's forums asking someone to copy an article that's cost money to produce for magazine A, and send it for free to you.

Good grief, go and buy the magazine.


I attempted to contact the writer direct so I could get the details without needing to look at the article but got no reply.

This response gives a good clue as to why I stopped subscribing.
If we ever fly again and meet up I'll give you the whole story.

There is much much more to it than sarcasm from the proprietor.
I actually supported the magazine with a sub for, from memory, over 15 years

Peter
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By PeteSpencer
#1754795
stevelup wrote:
PeteSpencer wrote:Cancelled my long-standing sub a few years ago . One flying mag in the house is enough


It's £7.50 a quarter...

I'm sorry Pete, but I think you're being a bit of a pr1ck publicly stating that you buy the other magazine whilst benefiting from the forums here.


See my other reply : Do you want me to delete the prick post?

I see the usual playground chimers have responded.

Peter
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By PeteSpencer
#1754797
stevelup wrote:I’ve toned it down. I just thought it was a bit of a cheek...


No worries: as a longstanding AOPA member their magazine actually gives me all I need in aviation circles .

As well as the PPLIR mag for a less frequent dabble.

Peter
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By Adrian
#1754800
PeteSpencer wrote:as a longstanding AOPA member their magazine actually gives me all I need in aviation circles .

As well as the PPLIR mag for a less frequent dabble.


And, based on your 23,706 posts here, Flyer gives you an awful lot too. :roll:
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By PeteSpencer
#1754802
stevelup wrote:No offence intended. I call my cat a prick all the time... :lol:


None taken:

Seriously though do you think that everybody who posts on the Flyer Forum takes out a subscription to flyer magazine ?

Or that a subscription should be a pre requisite to come on here and be abused by the same 8 people?

Peter :lol:
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By stevelup
#1754803
No, but not many would make a point of stating that they don’t subscribe to FLYER but do subscribe to the other one. That’s what I thought was a bit below the belt.
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By PeteSpencer
#1754804
What ‘other one’?

In my youth I subscribed to all three (remember Today’s Pilot), but with advancing years the continuous reports on flash Ac which I would never have a cat in hells chance in even sitting in let alone own palled a tad.

Remember I subscribed to Flyer mag for a decade and a half and supported IS.

That the contents no longer floated my boat is a personal opinion I am entitled to hold and voice

Freedom of speech and choice are important .

I guess many of you can’t accept this judging by the scorn . In times like this it’s often best to lie low for a bit,to allow you to discuss the subject of the OP which was after all my reason to get details, rather than lining up to give me a playground kicking, led as always by the same person. :lol:
Last edited by PeteSpencer on Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.