FLYER Forums

PeteSpencer wrote:777 has TAC. Thrust Asymmetry Compensation. It’s a great system which saved at least one major carrier from rolling one inverted!

Good reason for fitting MCAS

A little extra help for push when upside down.

The expectation is that on 8 March "open air recreation" will once again become a specifically defined reasonable excuse - in line with para (2)(ba) of the restrictions that were in force from 13 May until 13 June last year:

to visit a public open space for the purposes of open-air recreation to promote their physical or mental health or emotional wellbeing—
(i)alone,
(ii)with one or more members of their household, or
(iii)with one member of another household;

At the time, and when similar restrictions applied later in the year (November lockdown I believe?) for GA this was interpreted as meaning that those with open cockpit aircraft could fly for recreation, since they would be in the open air, and they were undertaking recreation.

It would of course make little sense to say that it's OK to fly if you have an open cockpit but not if you have a canopy or roof, and on that basis closed cockpit aircraft will probably be covered under a reasonable excuse deriving from the same.

Either way it makes little difference - most airfields will remain shut until 29 March as the CAA will probably not change their guidance until then, so the decision will be out of pilots' hands (should that be control columns?)

Overflight wrote:Sorry may have missed it in this overly long thread, but since the 'roadmap' has been tabled yesterday, when is it that:

> private flying (same household/bubble) can recommence, from airfield 'A' to airfield 'B' domestically?
> PPL training can recommence?
> single household/bubble fly privately overseas?

Tomorrow for all of that!
Although I may be wrong

Stay at home will still be in place until 29th March.

Crash one wrote:Although I may be wrong

You'll know in about an hours time.

oldbiggincfi wrote:

PeteSpencer wrote:777 has TAC. Thrust Asymmetry Compensation. It’s a great system which saved at least one major carrier from rolling one inverted!

.

No I didn't !

malcolmfrost wrote:Stay at home will still be in place until 29th March.

That's my understanding.

Rob P

Spotted in the Gov.uk COVID Response document, under Stage 1, on page 33, there is a paragraph that says:

93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so
that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors - with their
own household, support or childcare bubble, or with one person from another
household. Social distancing and other safe behaviours should be followed.

Wondering if that works for us. At the end of Lockdown 1, it was the change to leaving home for recreation that enabled the return to normal flight ops.

EdH  wrote:Spotted in the Gov.uk COVID Response document, under Stage 1, on page 33, there is a paragraph that says:

93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so
that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors - with their
own household, support or childcare bubble, or with one person from another
household. Social distancing and other safe behaviours should be followed.

Wondering if that works for us. At the end of Lockdown 1, it was the change to leaving home for recreation that enabled the return to normal flight ops.

As stated in my previous post, the wording of the identical exemption that applied after the end of lockdown 1 could be taken - in its strictest reading - only to include aircraft with an open air cockpit (i.e. no roof/canopy).

However, the legislation merely sets out that you must have a reasonable excuse, and then says 'here is a list of things that definitely count as reasonable excuses'. So the list of reasonable excuses is non-exhaustive, and on that basis I would suggest that if recreational aviation in an open cockpit aircraft is reasonable, it indicates it's also reasonable (at least within your household/bubble) in a closed cockpit aircraft.

MidlandFlying wrote:

EdH  wrote:Spotted in the Gov.uk COVID Response document, under Stage 1, on page 33, there is a paragraph that says:

93. From 8 March, the Stay at Home restriction will continue but it will be amended so
that people can leave home for recreation as well as exercise outdoors - with their
own household, support or childcare bubble, or with one person from another
household. Social distancing and other safe behaviours should be followed.

Wondering if that works for us. At the end of Lockdown 1, it was the change to leaving home for recreation that enabled the return to normal flight ops.

As stated in my previous post, the wording of the identical exemption that applied after the end of lockdown 1 could be taken - in its strictest reading - only to include aircraft with an open air cockpit (i.e. no roof/canopy).

However, the legislation merely sets out that you must have a reasonable excuse, and then says 'here is a list of things that definitely count as reasonable excuses'. So the list of reasonable excuses is non-exhaustive, and on that basis I would suggest that if recreational aviation in an open cockpit aircraft is reasonable, it indicates it's also reasonable (at least within your household/bubble) in a closed cockpit aircraft.

The “...with one person from another household...” lumped in here is the problem piece. Ok outdoors, but not in an enclosed space (e.g. cockpit). We need some words that talk about what it’s ok to do just on your own or in a bubble, e.g. solo in a closed cockpit. I appreciate that wouldn’t help with those needing instruction, but would be great for those needing to prevent the rust caking over entirely.

So, is it fair to surmise:

Folks are reasonably confident that it's highly likely you can fly (either with an instructor or on your own) from 29th March onwards.
Some folks are tentatively confident that you can fly from 8th March onwards with an instructor, as it's permissible recreation, but more confident you can fly on your own from that date?

I've asked our flight school/club what their current thinking is as - I'm assuming - much will actually depend on how a school/club chooses to interpret the rules, rather than the rules themselves, on the furrther assumption that those rules or guidance will be ambiguous!

Part of the challenge I have is that the guidance specifically says no mixing of households indoors - and I think it's pretty hard to argue that an enclosed cockpit isn't 'indoors'; I'm concerned that some schools will interpret this strictly, others will take the more 'relaxed' interpretation from previous lockdowns.

On that basis, is anyone here associated with a flight school/club and if so perhaps it is more meaningful to ask what your current plans are:

1) We're planning to restart lessons/check flights from 8th March unless we're specifically told we shouldn't
2) We're planning to restart lessons/check flights from 29th March
3) We're planning to restart lessons/check flights from 17th May, when householding mixing indoors is allowed
4) We're not making any plans at present

I think 12th April is a more likely outcome for schools to restart

PeteSpencer wrote:

oldbiggincfi wrote:

PeteSpencer wrote:777 has TAC. Thrust Asymmetry Compensation. It’s a great system which saved at least one major carrier from rolling one inverted!

.

No I didn't !

Sorry , you didn't and I havn't a clue what happened

Should have been

A4 Pacific wrote:

oldbiggincfi wrote:

Crash one wrote:
Aparrently not for the pilot/crew involved in that incident!

Dead leg --- Dead engine

Wonder who's left leg hurt most ?

777 has TAC. Thrust Asymmetry Compensation. It’s a great system which saved at least one major carrier from rolling one inverted!

Good reason for fitting MCAS

A little extra help for push when upside down.

Just to answer my own question - in case it is helpful for others - I asked our club/school when they are thinking about restarting and their response was 12th April onwards, unless guidance says otherwise.

Thanks @flyingearly , I had assumed that may be the date, given that hairdressers and nail bars can open and that's also close contact and unnecessary, iyswim.

Soooo, less than 6 weeks of glorious flying weather to tease us until then!?