[Stu B]

As quoted above:

For the purposes of SERA.3105 Minimum Heights, an aircraft flying within the Manchester Control Zone Special Low Level Route is permitted to fly below 1000 FT above the highest obstacle within a radius of 600 M from the aircraft if:

It is flying on a special VFR flight; or ...

So if not required to be talking to Manchester, where does one get the SVFR clearance? (or does "a special VFR" flight NOT amount to a " Special VFR" flight?)

[PaulB]

Is a flight plan (albeit an abbreviated one passed over RTF) a requirement (legal?) for flight in Class D? If so, how does the LLR get over that?

[tomtytom]

what does 4km forward visibility look like anyway?

[VRB_20kt]

what does 4km forward visibility look like anyway?

It looks like you can just about see the ground over the nose of the aeroplane.

[GAFlyer4Fun]

what does 4km forward visibility look like anyway?

If unfamiliar with the area, for some vfr pilots it looks like very easy to get lost and bust CAS when the gps fails.....

[tomtytom]

i almost did a final year uni project based on detecting cloud at a distance and displaying it on a read out in the cockpit. I quite often look at a cloud and try to relate it to a ground feature to semi guess its distance. I fly in NM, drive in miles and walk in Km, so looking down at the fields and guess how many 15-20min worth of walking there is then translate it into a rough distance. By this time im usually IMC......

[Dusty_B]

I’m pretty sure that the ‘special’ route used to be defined as a SVFR route, which for vanilla PPL holder meant 10k vis, and 1500m for appropriately rated pilots. The advantage of SVFR is that it is an IFR clearance, and therefore removed the 1500’ rule.
The 1500’ rule changed to 1000’; the base of the route was raised a tad; and EASA PPL and SERA changed the minima for PPLs in Class D. I think that is when the SVFR bit disappeared from the AIP....

Does this match anyone else’s recollection?

[rikur_]

Does this match anyone else’s recollection?

Sounds vaguely familiar... I also recall getting a clearance from Manchester Approach to transit the corridor (mid 90s) ... perhaps that was optional, not sure?

[Irv Lee]

Certainly svfr minimum vis reduced (but not vfr in class D), but whilst on the subject, is there anyone still around who knows why minimum for svfr was ever 10km (double vfr)? (which it was for nppl ssea right up to 2016.) I never understood why it was more than vfr.

[johnm]

Certainly svfr minimum vis reduced (but not vfr in class D), but whilst on the subject, is there anyone still around who knows why minimum for svfr was ever 10km (double vfr)? (which it was for nppl ssea right up to 2016.) I never understood why it was more than vfr.

It was part of the deal on the IMCR. VFR pilots had higher minima on SVFR than IMCR holders in class A airspace.

[Irv Lee]

@johnm sounds very odd... the lower limit for imc holders, yes, but any idea or even any guesses what they thought doubling vfr minimum for svfr would achieve?

[johnm]

@johnm sounds very odd... the lower limit for imc holders, yes, but any idea or even any guesses what they thought doubling vfr minimum for svfr would achieve?

What makes you think it was a rational conversation???

[EddieHeli]

"Pilots are advised that the Special Low Level Route is not aligned on the M6 Motorway, or on any railway line, and these should not therefore, be used as a navigational line feature for transit throughout the route. "
I wonder why not, would it not make more sense to do so, being as one is supposed to navigate the route with reference to the ground features.

[EddieHeli]

"would it not make more sense to do so". I mean for the CAA to align the LLR with these features

[Irv Lee]

@johnm sounds very odd... the lower limit for imc holders, yes, but any idea or even any guesses what they thought doubling vfr minimum for svfr would achieve?

What makes you think it was a rational conversation???

I was wondering if it involved the early career of the same uk guy who went over in 2008 to Cologne towards the end of his career and presented how brilliantly "rolling validity" was going with the nppl-ssea, not realising that had been dumped in 2007 as a failure.