Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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User avatar
By PaulB
#1746687
Out of interest, how do you assess the cloud base over such a large area?
#1746689
AlanM wrote:Full SERA without exemptions has been in force in the Channel Islands CTR Since August 2017.

Has anyone who has flown in/out/transitted had any issues?


Mainly not, because on the few occasions that I was refused a VFR entry, I just requested an IFR clearance. What I possibly could have done was to request an SVFR clearance.

Iceman 8)
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User avatar
By T67M
#1746696
AlanM wrote:Full SERA without exemptions has been in force in the Channel Islands CTR Since August 2017.


As discussed previously, the weather in the Channel Isles is very different to that in the South East of the mainland. Most of the time, the Channel Isles are either moderate-or-better VMC or hard IMC. The mainland spends significantly more time in the poor-VMC region where VFR is banned under SERA, resulting in the loss of something like 20% of the potential flyable days according to an analysis of a years worth of daytime METARS.
#1746700
PaulB wrote:Out of interest, how do you assess the cloud base over such a large area?


That is the beauty of it; we don’t. Outside of the ATZ/Aerodrome Traffic Circuit the pilot can ask for whatever clearance they require - VFR/SVFR/IFR. The pilot self declares.

You only have to adhere to the minimum flight rules in the ATZ..... so weather matters for the departure/first two miles of the flight and the last two miles and the landing.
Last edited by AlanM on Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PaulB liked this
#1746702
T67M wrote:
AlanM wrote:Full SERA without exemptions has been in force in the Channel Islands CTR Since August 2017.


As discussed previously, the weather in the Channel Isles is very different to that in the South East of the mainland. Most of the time, the Channel Isles are either moderate-or-better VMC or hard IMC. The mainland spends significantly more time in the poor-VMC region where VFR is banned under SERA, resulting in the loss of something like 20% of the potential flyable days according to an analysis of a years worth of daytime METARS.


Having controlled in the UK and SE of England for a lot of my years, I respectfully disagree.

The rules will not be the issue: it will be poor interpretation by ATC and misunderstanding/lack of knowledge of those rules that will make it harder
#1746703
@AlanM

Here we go again! A good ranty thread is evolving and someone feels to need to throw a spanner in the wheel, not only by stating that there are places who already implement what is going to happen in the UK next month but also provides a link to a useful piece of work.

This. must. be. stopped.

:wink:

Thank you for your factual contribution.

:thumright: :thumleft:
AlanM liked this
#1746705
@Flyin'Dutch' sorry!

I had my reservations of its’ implementation after 30 years in ATC, previously controlling in Class A (LHR) and Class D CTRs. But I really think it is not as bad as people think.

Anyway, looks like it is happening so I suggest that people embrace it, learn the rules and work out how to male it work for that unit and the users. Get together with ATC and engage with them. (As per the link which was given to the Jersey Aero Club)
Flyin'Dutch', FrankS liked this
#1746708
AlanM wrote:Here’s one I prepared earlier......
http://www.cicz.co.uk/ae/files/articles/sera-_presentation_aero_club_aug2017.pdf


Thank you for the presentation link, really useful. Unfortunately not been to the Channel Islands since 2004/5 when I lived a lot closer than I do now, your zone was Class A back then thus SVFR prevailed. Definitely need to visit again sooner rather than later.
derekf, AlanM liked this
#1746709
AlanM wrote:@Flyin'Dutch' sorry!



I will let you off this time, but such leniency cannot be relied on for future transgressions!

:D :D :D
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#1746748
QSD wrote:I do wonder what the S in EASA is supposed to mean. How can it be safer to be 1,000 ft from cloud but only 500 ft from ground?


The rule's there because supposedly VFR are responsible for their own separation from other traffic in Class D, and there could be an aircraft descending out of the cloud. In the UK we don't operate Class D like that so it's a nonsense rule for us, but that's the way it is. Something we could be given back is to operate Class D as it should be.

AlanM wrote:Has anyone who has flown in/out/transitted had any issues?


I've mentioned before about a friend of mine who was refused take off clearance, had to taxi back, shut down and spend an unscheduled night on the island in otherwise "good" (for the UK!) VFR conditions. I'm guessing he didn't know to request SVFR (to him it was good VFR conditions!) but wasn't offered it either.
User avatar
By AlanM
#1746750
@Paul_Sengupta - The phrase “A VFR clearance is not available” has been used for many many years in UK ATC.

As ATCOs we do not know if you can take SVFR or IFR so it is not offered. It is up to the pilot to know their own minima, vis a vis the actual weather and request accordingly.
User avatar
By AlanM
#1746754
@Paul_Sengupta No idea. That is the point!

You file VFR, you cannot legally be offered VFR, you tell us what you want. Generally, when the weather is dropping I would not suggest that you head off SVFR.

Over defensive?
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