Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By 3d3dman
#1746360
Currently looking at a couple of aircraft shares at the moment, the issue is I simply cannot decide on the aircraft and my big fear is availability within a share. Up to this point i have been renting, although this has proved to be restrictive when it comes to taking the plane for longer periods I have always been able to find a plane to rent last minute for a couple of hours.

I am torn between either going into a share for solely a Pa28 140 or an Archer, I am also considering both shares as a way to maximise availability - it seems many private pilots have multiple shares. There is a £20 difference in the hourly rate and monthly rate between the 140 and archer however this is all relative with the speed difference. Both shares financially are in a positive state.

My plan is to fly trips lasting no more than 2.5 hours one way, both aircraft's will be capable of doing this however the 140 is restrictive with the amount of load compared to the archer. the archer is ultimately a better tourer.

When I fly I usually only have 1 passenger so the 140 would work on this basis. If anyone has any experience with the 140 compared to the archer I would love to hear it. Flying the 140 it did feel slower but more lively than the archer. I fly a mixture of mainly locals and trips away, my plan was to use the 140 for locals and the archer for touring.

Good Shares do not come around often, I don't want to risk missing out on the opportunity but I am torn between going with 1 share and risking availability especially as I fly mostly at the weekend. My other idea was to get both shares, if the availability of the archer was good to then sell the 140 share.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks Rob
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By Rob P
#1746368
I have been in a 10 member group, (Yak 52), 6 to 8 member group (PA22), 2 member group (RV-6) and 1 member group (RV-4) and over the 18 years that spans I can't recall other than a couple of minor availability irritations.

I think you are worrying excessively about this.

Rob P
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By Ebbie 2003
#1746387
I have an Archer - very good load capacity - pretty near to if it fits in it flies (well with a partial fuel load).

The 140 you really are only two up.

As to availability - look at the groups'booking sheets - that will give the best indication of availability. A group with sixteen members and only a few really active and only ever take it way for a day or two is a better bet than one with four members three of whom each habitually fly a couple of hours every weekend and take the plane away for three weeks in the summer.

As with all groups weekends are everything - if you can fly mid-week no matter how busy the group is generally you will usually have exceptional access.
By sky_high30
#1746401
I'm in a 12 man group at the minute which operates 150hrs a year and have no problem with availability. Half the group fly regularly (15-20hrs each), 1/4 just about stay current and there's a few people that haven't flown in ages.

I'd buy the archer for touring and wait for something fun with two seats for the occasional blast round. I'm toying with disposing of my current share for a fun two seater but it's a bit like selling your car to buy a motorbike.
By Lefty
#1746405
I’d suggest the Archer. It goes faster and carries more for longer distances - therefore gives you much more options.

Nb the Archer and the 140 have very different wings - and somewhat different handling characteristics. Being the MUCH older aircraft, many 140’s have old instruments, old “butterfly” control yokes, no toe brakes, and the trim wheel in the roof (actually an old car window winder handle).
Do you want “retro” or slightly more modern?
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By Rob P
#1746409
I love the window winder trim

Rob P
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By Dodo
#1746431
For many years I owned my own PA28-140 and a share in an Archer (PA-28-181).

I used my PA28-140 for flights with 2 people.

If I wanted to carry 4 people I used the Archer.

FWIW I preferred the handling of the PA28-140. It felt much lighter on the controls.

I now have a Bolkow Junior which I own outright, still have the share in the Archer, and also a share in a Tri-Pacer.
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By robert79
#1746444
In my experience, people with multiple shares are either very wealthy (in which case just buy your own if you're worried about availability), or have one plane that fly and another that they've been trying to get shot of for months or years.

Little point buying 2 shares in very similar aircraft. I think you'll find yourself trying to sell one of them before too long.

But it's your money!
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By Rob L
#1746446
If looking to buy a share of an aircraft, the important thing is the group of shareholders you are buying into, not the aircraft itself.

Meet the other shareholders, and satisfy yourself that you get on with them, and they you. Study the written group agreement (there is one of those, isn't there?) and make sure your interests are protected in case of a fall-out / unexpected maintenance bill / aircraft accident / death etc.

Rob
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By GAFlyer4Fun
#1746450
I would chose the Archer.

Higher useful load = more options for people that gain weight over the years :wink:

Also some passengers might be more nervous in a retro looking 140 and not tell you, but their availability as passengers soon disappears if they have doubts about it.
By robert79
#1746468
GAFlyer4Fun wrote:Also some passengers might be more nervous in a retro looking 140 and not tell you, but their availability as passengers soon disappears if they have doubts about it.

Haha. Reminds me of the time I took a work colleague up in the Rollason Condor I used to fly. I described it to him and showed him photos and he was up for it.
Come the day I pulled it out the hangar. "Err... Oh, right! It's a lot smaller than I expected. Ummm. Right!"
He was 6 foot something and I'm not exactly small so it was a bit cosy.
He had no choice by that point as we were going to a work meeting and driving would have made him very late so in he squeezed and off we went. :lol:
He was quite quiet for the first few minutes but soon chilled out and even had a go on the controls. Good day out. Can't remember the meeting at all though.
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By defcribed
#1746484
Those shares are too similar to be worth it owning both. Unless they are both very large groups and its a question of availability.

The average mission for both may be similar, but the Archer is much more capable so all things being equal I'd go for that.

I'm not super rich and I have two shares. 1/10th of a PA17 very close to home for summer evening stuff and short missions, 1/9th of a TB10 a bit further away for weekends away etc. They complement each other well and I have flown one to the other and then flown that on a few occasions.
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By foxmoth
#1746487
One thing that the OP does not say is how many people are in the groups, maybe if they are both groups of 20 he should have some concerns, and if the groups are that big the share price is probably low enough to afford both, otherwise, as a few people have pointed out availability does not tend to be a great issue. I have generally found with almost any group that 1/3 fly reasonably often, 1/3 fly occasionally and 1/3 hardly fly at all.
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By Flyin'Dutch'
#1746611
Not withstanding what @Dodo wrote, there is no cogent argument to be had to buy a share in 2 PA28s.

If you (the OP) think there is just post it!

Give us the typical parameters of interest when buying a share and I will demonstrate there is only one that suits your needs.......

:D

Parameters:

Type
Hours
Purchase costs
Flying costs and charging method
Monthly costs
Other costs
Equipment
Group Size
Time and Distance to Travel to aeroplane
Type of Base (Grass-strip or Luton)
etc.

As others have already written, they are too similar so there will be other factors which will make one the logical choice.
By evanscm3
#1746616
Ditch the -140, the Archer is much more capable and eventually you will be grateful of the extra distance you can cover with a faster aircraft.

If you really want access to 2 then look for something interesting / different for your local summer evening jaunts... I wouldn't buy both. Especially not a slab 140 over a 181... :thumleft: