Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
#1737955
A slightly different perspective, but whilst the IRR is undoubtedly a good challenge and even better for your flying skills, do consider whether you will otherwise use it? A point not often mentioned is that to really take advantage of flying airways you really also need an aircraft that is capable of doing so. Thats not to say most singles will not manage, but it will be a struggle for pilot and aircraft. Airways flying is all about getting above the weather, or, if you cant manage that, a properly deiced twin would make sense. Regrettably a Tomahawk will struggle on most counts of an airways capable aircraft, but will do very nicely as an occasional instrument platform for IRR use. If you intend to use a different instrument platform in time to come thats a different matter but I know a fair few pilots with IRs that rarely end up using the rating in earnest.
#1737957
I am struggling a little with this thread, because it is not clear whether either the OP or some of the respondents are talking about the IR or the IMC rating (aka IR(R)). There is a world of difference between these.
However, from experience, I can say this. I did my night qualification some years ago when I first did the PPL. In practice, I was unable to use it until I had done the IMC rating (IR[R]if you prefer). I was still unable to use it safely until I had done a multi engine rating.
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By WelshRichy
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#1737958
Back in the day I flew most of my IMC training on the schools Tomahawks, fantastic aeroplanes which I do have a soft spot for. A little twitchy though but all good fun. Going to a PA28 afterwards and you'll notice the difference in stability whilst flying in thermals under the hood.

Finished up my IMC Rating a year or so later during my FAA IR training on a PA28, the school had a UK CAA Examiner on staff who signed off my skills test at the same time as Part 141 Stage 3 check prior to my FAA IR Checkride.

If I was doing this again then I'd go for the Night Rating first as you can do that now. Much easier to do before the clocks go forward and nights get shorter towards the end of March. It may be good to start your IMC/IR(R) training as well as it will help during the climb out at night and whilst flying over very sparsely populated areas at night. Also, easier to inadvertently fly into cloud at night...
#1737968
One thing sticks in my mind from doing the Night rating. Coasting out under 8 octas into absolute black, the only thing to be seen was the wingtip strobes reflecting the light rain. (switched them off). Nothing I'd done under the hood in daylight came close to the concentration required to hand fly that aircraft in inky blackness.
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By johnm
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#1738103
Instrument skills are critical for safe night flying as you will very often find there are no external references out in the sticks and you can easily enter cloud inadvertently.

From a practical flying point of view there is very little difference between an IR(R) and IR. The differences are mostly about privileges such as flight in class A and airways. With IR (R) you can fly approaches and maintain control in IMC and that's the most important thing. After that it's about currency and a current IR(R) holder may well be better equipped than a rusty IR holder.

I did IMCR then night and then IR and all I got from the IR course was currency. I was pretty current after 50 hours stooging around the sky with the screens up!

I flew IFR in my Archer 2 UK and Europe both OCAS and airways in some pretty carp weather and it had just a wing leveller, I now fly a TB 20 with 3 access autopilot and it's much more relaxing. The critical piece of kit is an IFR approved GPS. I had 430 W in the Archer and we have GTN 650 in the TB.
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By Sir Morley Steven
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#1738107
GrahamB wrote:The IRR is valid for the class of aircraft in which you take it, so if you do it in an SEP, it’s valid for all SEP aircraft.

Actually the IRr is not class specific. I had this confirmed at my last Examiner seminar.
Absurd as it seems you can get an IRr in a single and, provided you have an MEP class rating, fly IFR in a twin using the privileges of your IRr.
As for the order, get your night rating before the clocks go forward then do the IRr. Airframe icing in cloud is much more of an issue now, less so in April and in my opinion it is better to do some of your training in cloud.
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By Sir Morley Steven
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#1738118
Yup. Of course you will have done that on your MEP rating but not under the hood.
If you elect to do your IRr in a multi, however, the asymmetric stuff will be tested which is why it is on the examiners form.
But if you do the test in a single, you can use the privileges in a twin.
#1738123
Sir Morley Steven wrote:Yup. Of course you will have done that on your MEP rating but not under the hood.
If you elect to do your IRr in a multi, however, the asymmetric stuff will be tested which is why it is on the examiners form.
But if you do the test in a single, you can use the privileges in a twin.

Exactly that. I had this confirmed by the CAA when I first gained an MEP rating, although I elected to take my most recent IRR renewal MEP precisely for the practice of doing asymmetric approaches in real IMC. It just seemed a good idea to experience it with an instructor/examiner in the RHS.
#1738179
Getting an IR, even if restricted, should include flying in IMC. And you don't want to do that in an aircraft not meant for flight into known icing conditions. So at the latitudes of Northern Europé, IMC is pretty much a summer sport while night flying is for winters because of the light.

So anyone eager to start training at this time of year should go for the NQ.

I did my NQ in, I think, 2005. Back then, there were still plenty of VORs in the neighbourhood to use for navigation. I don't know if the syllabus has changed: allow GPS or only visual navigation? For me personally, practicing the use of radio navigation in the dark made me a better pilot also in the daytime.
By johnm
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#1738182
I have happily flown in IMC in winter and I've also picked up ice in spring and summer, it all depends on cloud types, altitude and temperature in various combinations....[/threaddrift]
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