Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By kanga
#1735045
Flyin'Dutch' wrote:What are the accident stats these days?

Their safety record has been appalling, ...


.. but I think that was in an earlier era of older machines and little qualified dual instruction being available, so some pilots had much of their earlier training in single seat gyro gliders towed or winched along runways. I can remember seeing this at Swansea. I believe that the record for the modern, usually Rotax, machines with pilots trained on them at established schools is very much better. The situation (and maybe the accident statistic, I don't know) may be comparable to early, barely regulated, microlighting compared to today.

However, I gather that the legacy affects today's insurance premia, at least in UK, making learning on your instructor's machine (initially, the only way to do it) more expensive than on a fixed wing 2-seater, especially a microlight. I assume this is reflected in the 'trial lesson' rates. I don't know if the same is true in Belgium, or at schools nearer the factories, eg in Italy.
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By FlyboyStu
#1735048
Three other quick points I forgot to include in my essay :-

1. Whether you get cold in an open cockpit gyro depends on what you wear. My most recent flight posted on the pictures and video subforum was in early December when the temperature was around freezing. Wearing a heated jacket (plugs directly into the MT-03's electrics) and a flying suit meant I was toasty warm.

2. My most recent flight was this past Sunday, when the wind was 18G28kts. Not many fixed wings flying, but the PPL(A) student I had in the back seat was amazed how unaffected we were by the gusty wind, other than the ridiculous crab angle. You can fly gyros more frequently in the UK than you can a fixed wing, as they are less affected by wind and you are safer flying low and slow than you would be in a fixed wing.

3. The most recent point about insurance is correct - it costs more per hull pound to insure a gyro; I'm paying around £1,200 annually for my MT-03.

Stu
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By bilko2
#1735050
My objection to them is their noise and how long they take to get out of hearing range. Otherwise I have desired one since seeing Connery in Little Nellie.
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By FlyboyStu
#1735053
bilko2 wrote:My objection to them is their noise and how long they take to get out of hearing range. Otherwise I have desired one since seeing Connery in Little Nellie.


Ah, the 'Jeremy Clarkson' objection to all things GA. I'm not sure it's true. Most of the noise comes from the same engine/prop combination used in a lot of fixed wings, and the speeds are not that dissimilar. Meanwhile, most landings are conducted power-off.
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By skydriller
#1735059
FlyboyStu wrote:
bilko2 wrote:My objection to them is their noise and how long they take to get out of hearing range. Otherwise I have desired one since seeing Connery in Little Nellie.


Ah, the 'Jeremy Clarkson' objection to all things GA. I'm not sure it's true. Most of the noise comes from the same engine/prop combination used in a lot of fixed wings, and the speeds are not that dissimilar. Meanwhile, most landings are conducted power-off.


Tosh.

I can tell ABSOLUTELY when its one of the 2x Gyrocopters from my aeroclub flying near/over the local adjacent small town where I live. The noise is higher and pitched differently than any other GA aeroplane. Its as different as a ULM, turbine chopper or turboprop going over, or the para-drop guy climbing to altitude or plummeting back down ASAP.

We all need to be neighbour friendly regardless of our chosen steed.

Regards, SD..
By Crash one
#1735091
I honestly can’t see the point of being any part of the aviation community and then complaining about the noise made by some other part of the community.
What I can’t stand is the sound of some dumb assed boy racer tearing the guts out of what used to be a perfectly good, well engineered engine, and thinking it’s fun.
Point two.
Why is is it that even though the early problems with thrust lines killing people were well and truly investigated, and severely solved, the original reputation still persists?
Why do insurance companies still charge the earth?
Why do they cost so much to buy?
Are we still allowed to build them from plans to section T, or are only factory built aircraft allowed, and if not, why not?
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By skydriller
#1735107
Crash one wrote:I honestly can’t see the point of being any part of the aviation community and then complaining about the noise made by some other part of the community.


If aimed at my comment above, then you misunderstand - Im not complaining about another form of flying, Im saying we ALL need to be neighbourly.

I am like most pilots in that I pretty much cannot NOT look up at anything that flies over my house or wherever I happen to be when I hear an aeroplane or helicopter. I also can't NOT watch a take-off or a landing at an aerodrome either. Ive been doing this since I was around 3 or 4 years old. Its in-grained and Im sure it amuses my non-flying friends and colleagues.

But that doesnt mean that on a few occasions I hear our local para-guy drone up/down over the town on a Sunday afternoon for a couple of hours or see someone circling overhead more than a couple of times at low level and think "hmmm - if Im noticing and/or getting a little annoyed (and I like aeroplanes!) then possibly many of my neighbours are less impressed and might complain..." Additionally, I know that the para-guy is supposed to be using 3 or 4 alternate climb/decent patterns over the whole of the Medoc area, and you arent really supposed to fly over our small town below 1700ft AGL... And as Im on the board of the local aeroclub I might be the guy that gets complained at.

Regards, SD..
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By FlyboyStu
#1735114
skydriller wrote:Im not complaining about another form of flying, Im saying we ALL need to be neighbourly.
.


Well I agree; but gyro pilots don't have a monopoly on being un-neighbourly. Yes, we tend to need higher power settings because the rotor disc gives a lot of drag. But we also have very steep climb gradients so a properly flown departure should cause minimal noise outside of the airfield. And, as I have mentioned, a properly flown arrival procedure should be power off from circuit height to touchdown - not much noise there then.

What you seem to be referring to is the propensity of some pilots, fixed wing and rotary, to remain over one area for a period of time that exceeds the noise tolerance of non-aviators - and this is a perfectly valid criticism.
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By Crash one
#1735127
Skydriller.
It wasn’t aimed at you but at bilko 2s remark.
I too have been keen on anything aviatic since building a Doodlebug from a few bits of wood at the age of 5 which my father hung from the rafters so I could make Doodlebug and Spitfire noises for hours.
My father sometimes joining in with bang, bang noises with his rendition of the 3.5” anti aircraft gun that he was heavily involved with at the time!
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By Miscellaneous
#1735141
FlyboyStu wrote:...arrival procedure should be power off from circuit height to touchdown - not much noise there then.

I don't know about that, in your video I thought it sounded like a wokka. :lol:

On a serious note, your speed appeared to vary quite a bit on lapproach, is that usual?
By Bill McCarthy
#1735150
If you think a Rotax is noisy in the egg whisk, try standing near one powered by a flat four McCulloch engine - without any form of exhaust system !
Mind you, you do get some autogyro pilots who like to demonstrate a “look what I can do” hover into wind from time to time.
I maintain that the Rotax is noisy due to the drag aforementioned, causing the prop to cavitate (like a marine prop).
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By FlyboyStu
#1735153
Miscellaneous wrote:On a serious note, your speed appeared to vary quite a bit on lapproach, is that usual?


Yes; that’s what happens with a power off approach. You choose your IDP (initial descent point) as late as you think you might possibly need based on the wind, then if you’re too high (as I was here) you can use a hovering descent to lose altitude. This basically involves reducing to zero airspeed, during which you descend a bit, then recovering to usual approach speed via nose down, during which you descend a lot.
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By Red
#1735155
Ones I've seen appear to need an awfull lot of runway to get off considering their light weight,
quite at odds with their short landing capability
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