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Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:20 am
by GrahamB
Dave W wrote:Thanks, Irv. I shall update and publish when I get a moment. Previously I hadn't included any other Reval methods other than explicitly R by E detail, because the table was unwieldy enough anyway, but I see the point of a Note as you suggest so will try and squeeze it in.

The title of the document is "Revalidation by experience" - are you going to include revalidation by PC for all licences, or make the note generic? In any case, the title would need changing. [/pedant] :D

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Thu Nov 14, 2019 11:46 am
by Dave W
No - it is and will remain a Reval by Exp table. I do need to be careful to continue to keep it bounded.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:08 pm
by PaulB
I know space is an issues, but could you put something to the effect that ratings can be renewed by a proficiency check but that that's beyond the scope of this sheet? (or something like that?)

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Thu Nov 14, 2019 2:26 pm
by Dave W
I have to assume a certain base level of knowledge. I do want the scope of this table to be restricted to R by E; there's enough in there already that risks people getting lost in detail.

There is an opportunity a guidance doc that covers the next level up ("Ways I can Revalidate") - and in practice that's the role Irv's website already fulfils.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:40 pm
by MartinC
Question: Can I fly a Non-EASA aircraft (a Jodel) with a pre-JAA UK PPL in combination with a LAPL medical *in Europe*.

I am totally confused by the combos here and I have also taken a read of Irv's table and website including the FAQs. The more I read, the less I understand and it seems to be ambiguous.

I (think I) know that a pre-JAA UK PPL is now valid with a LAPL medical in the same way as the self-declaration (although that is only for UK airspace and does not apply for foreign trips). I thought I had read somewhere on the forums that a LAPL medical in combo with the PPL only gives the same privileges as the self-dec (UK only), in which case it offers nothing more....

However, if I have misunderstood and in fact the LAPL in combo with the old UK PPL can now be used in Europe with a non-easa (annex ii /now i aircraft), that is potentially useful as I will only ever fly this 2-seater in VFR conditions.

Help (and sorry if this has already been covered or I am just being thick :)

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 12:45 pm
by flybymike
It’s an ICAO licence and an EASA recognised medical, so one would imagine it should be ok.

But then who knows these days.....

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:56 pm
by Irv Lee
Well I won't have easy access to the ANO til tomorrow night but I would start by assuming non easa licence plus non easa aircraft plus non icao medical means UK only unless foreign authority happy, then work from there through ano bits looking for better news.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:36 pm
by patowalker
In France you are OK, whether the Jodel is factory or amateur built, under one of these two decrees,

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0036437808

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0036437838

In article 4 they both say
Le pilote est titulaire d'un titre aéronautique et des qualifications associées permettant de voler sur cet aéronef, soit délivré par l'Etat d'immatriculation ou par un organisme ayant reçu délégation de cet Etat, soit validé ou reconnu par cet Etat.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 2:59 pm
by JAFO
For an NPPL with an SSEA rating @Dave W;s table says that the examiner signs the licence - I'm fine with that.

I hear about instructors with FCL.945 privileges signing licences. Where does that stand WRT to NPPL because FCL isn't really relevant to the national licence. Or is it?

Basically, the question is can an instructor with FCL.945 privileges sign my licence? Does that instructor have to have carried out my "instructor hour"? Do I need an examiner instead?

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:21 pm
by MartinC
patowalker wrote:In France you are OK, whether the Jodel is factory or amateur built, under one of these two decrees,

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0036437808

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTe ... 0036437838

In article 4 they both say
Le pilote est titulaire d'un titre aéronautique et des qualifications associées permettant de voler sur cet aéronef, soit délivré par l'Etat d'immatriculation ou par un organisme ayant reçu délégation de cet Etat, soit validé ou reconnu par cet Etat.


Hi, thanks for the reply. It's not actually the aircraft that is the issue (factory built by SAN Bernay Jodel), but whether the UK PPL will work with a LAPL medical in France and further afield.... previously it had to be a Class 2 medical for Europe with a (non-EASA) PPL.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:37 pm
by patowalker
That is why I quoted article 4.
This my free translation, which is worth what you paid for it:

'The pilot holds a licence and the associated qualifications to fly this aircraft, either issued by the State of registry or by an organization having received delegation from that State, or validated or recognized by that State."

To me that means if you have a licence valid to fly that particular aircraft* in the UK, it will be accepted in France. If your licence is valid in the UK with a LAPL medical, then that is also acceptable, in my view.

* covered by article 1 of Annex 1
a) historic aircraft meeting the following criteria:
(i)aircraft whose:
— initial design was established before 1 January 1955, and
— production has been stopped before 1 January 1975;

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:20 pm
by Edward Bellamy
UK PPL + LAPL medical is OK under article 163 of the ANO and is not (in the ANO at least) restricted to the UK.

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:40 am
by Irv Lee
@Edward Bellamy Saves me one of 99 other things to do when I get home tonight

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:50 am
by JAFO
@Irv Lee How about this one, then? If you're bored when you get home tonight :D

JAFO wrote:For an NPPL with an SSEA rating @Dave W;s table says that the examiner signs the licence - I'm fine with that.

I hear about instructors with FCL.945 privileges signing licences. Where does that stand WRT to NPPL because FCL isn't really relevant to the national licence. Or is it?

Basically, the question is can an instructor with FCL.945 privileges sign my licence? Does that instructor have to have carried out my "instructor hour"? Do I need an examiner instead?

Re: Today is also the day... that if you bother to follow lapl validity rules... they have changed!

PostPosted:Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:59 am
by patowalker
ANO article 163 also says a UK NPPL + LAPL medical is OK and makes no mention of it being restricted to the UK. :)

LAPL privileges on a PPL with a LAPL medical are coming to EASAland soon, but not because the ANO says so.