Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By SteveC
#1742152
There is no plan at all for our EASA membership. The CAA are headless chickens and their own advice is SOLI to another state. To retain membership of EASA we have to give in on some of the 'red lines" the government set and at the moment they are moving further away from alignment not closer. Javids admission this week about us not aligning is just the tip of the iceberg in this lunacy.

If you want to continue to fly EASA aircraft then you need to SOLI pure and simple. If you are happy in a G reg flying around for the £200 bacon butty and coffee as a PPL then it won't have as big an impact on you as someone who is considering a professional career. Even if we do create a UK only commercial flying industry its going to be a really tiny pot with limited opportunities. The airlines are already stating EASA licence on applications and the big players are making it terms of employment you move to a non UK EASA licence. Ryanair are IAA of course, Easjyet are Austro Control, my company is Austro Control as examples.

You can SOLI and still apply for a UK National licence so its a bit of a no brainer to preserve your privileges rather than bury your heads in the sand.......
Stu B liked this
By Overflight
#1742153
I'd rather take more notice of what EASA say on the subject rather than what our UK Government says. Right now the position in EASA's eyes is:

'As the withdrawal and transitional agreement negotiations are currently underway EASA cannot yet determine the ultimate impact of the withdrawal on EASA or its stakeholders within the EU-27 and 4 associated countries or within the UK. The withdrawal will significantly alter EASA’s cooperation with UK authorities and will not leave EASA’s stakeholders untouched. '


Not particularly comforting.
kanga, PaulB liked this
By johnm
#1742231
I did consider moving my licence to Ireland, but I'll probably just pack in flying if the UK authorities screw it all up. I fly G reg only so in theory it shouldn't make much difference, but the UK government seems incapable of creating a plan and implementing it thus far :(
By johnm
#1742235
Lockhaven wrote:My understanding from someone with inside knowledge is that we will remain with EASA but following the Swiss style of membership.


That would be the obvious way to go and be very welcome to all except the odd nutcase.....
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By PaulB
#1742240
How much say in the EASA (The European Union Aviation Safety Agency) rule making process do non-EU members have?

Does it fit with being the UK's wish to be"a rule maker, not a rule taker"?
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By flybymike
#1742242
johnm wrote:
Lockhaven wrote:My understanding from someone with inside knowledge is that we will remain with EASA but following the Swiss style of membership.


That would be the obvious way to go and be very welcome to all except the odd nutcase.....

Can someone please outline the “Swiss style of membership?“
User avatar
By SteveC
#1742245
Lockhaven wrote:My understanding from someone with inside knowledge is that we will remain with EASA but following the Swiss style of membership.



We can only have a Swiss/Norwegian style of membership if we accept ECJ ruling. Thats one of the famous red lines that the government offered as part of the Brexit sales pitch.... So the CAA is wishful thinking that we could retain that style of membership as its clearly not on the agenda of their masters higher up in government......
kanga, Stu B liked this
By johnm
#1742252
The Swiss case is a specific bilateral agreement whereby the Swiss adopt the EU regulation pertaining to EASA into Swiss law and basically operate as an EU member state for the purposes of Aviation, Norway have done something similar.

We have a withdrawal agreement that takes effect (in theory) at the end of Jan and cease to be a member at that point. However there's then a transition period during which we operate as an EU member state, but with no representation at Council, Commission or Parliament. During the transition period the future relationship is to be worked out.

Most airlines have addressed the problem by the simple expedient of moving their place of business elsewhere in the EU and if they can't then offer cabotage in the UK, Flybe might be grateful and Easyjet and Ryanair probably don't care. Their crew will have already done the SOLI thing.

As the UK is an ICAO state, flight to and from other countries in a G Reg for private pilots shouldn't be a major issue.
Lockhaven liked this
By Overflight
#1742255
CAA assumptions on a non-defined outcome in less than two weeks!:

Planning assumptions for a non-negotiated exit

To help organisations with their own planning for Brexit, we have listed the assumptions that we used to develop our approach for a potential non-negotiated withdrawal from the EU.

These assumptions are not representative of the CAA’s view of the most likely, or desirable, outcome of negotiations and do not reflect Government policy, but have allowed us as a responsible regulator to prepare for all possible scenarios. In a non-negotiated outcome in October 2019, we have assumed that:

The UK leaves the EU at 11 pm on 31 January 2020.

Through the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018, the UK adopts all European aviation laws at the point of exit. Changes will be made to ensure those laws are legally operable.

The UK continues to mirror EU aviation regulations for at least a two-year period.

The UK withdraws completely from the EASA system in January 2020, meaning that the CAA will need to fulfil regulatory functions without having EASA as a technical agent and without having access to EASA and EU-level capabilities.

The UK is no longer included in EU-level Bilateral Aviation Safety Agreements.
There is no mutual recognition agreement between the EU and the UK for aviation licences, approvals and certificates.

UK issued licences and approvals (issued when the UK was an EASA member) will continue to have validity under UK law but only those contained in EU Regulation 2019/494 will continue to have validity within the EU system, as defined by that regulation.

The EU treats UK airlines as Third Country Operators.

All licences issued by the CAA under EU legislation, and all type approval certificates and third country approvals issued by EASA under EU legislation, will continue to have validity under UK law, if they were effective immediately before exit day.

The UK has minimised additional requirements for licences, approvals and certificates from EU aviation and aerospace companies providing services and goods in the UK.

Bringing EU regulation into UK law

Under a non-negotiated withdrawal scenario, a number of regulatory processes will need to exist within the UK system so that we are able to continue to regulate the UK aviation industry. This means that we have been adjusting existing systems so that they can continue to work in exactly the same way as now – but with the UK Government and the CAA fulfilling regulatory functions independently of the EU.

Developing new functions and capabilities

Within this scenario, translating EU aviation law into UK law will require the CAA to take on new functions, some of which are currently delivered by EASA. The CAA has implemented plans to fulfil these functions should they be needed following the UK’s departure from the EU. As an example, the CAA has created the capability required for the UK to fulfil State of Design responsibilities independently of EASA should that be needed once the UK leaves the EU.
User avatar
By PaulB
#1742281
Will Theresa May's withdrawal act be amended or superseded? The current government has no intention of having any involvement with the EU other than a trade deal after 31/12/20. I'd guess that a 2 year transition is a dead duck.
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