Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By defcribed
#1719138
I don't think Shoreham had a choice about providing full ATC. As with Wycombe, I understand that the CAA mandate it.

Yes separation is your responsibility, but the ATCO can't give you unsafe instructions like telling you to join a circuit with more aircraft in than he can handle. The time taken to make the calls, the readbacks, time for landing aircraft to vacate etc means that there is a finite limit on the number of aircraft that can be handled in the circuit under ATC. If he can't fit you in, he won't let you in. Under A/G no-one can stop you joining and the only thing stopping you joining 11 other aircraft into the circuit is your own sense of self preservation.

I don't think Shoreham are trying to achieve anything in particular. It's not like they need more weekend visitors.
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1719142
defcribed wrote:You assume they want more visitors?


No assumptions, they've stated themselves that they want more visitors.

defcribed wrote:I don't think Shoreham had a choice about providing full ATC. As with Wycombe, I understand that the CAA mandate it.


Except that Shoreham does go to A/G at times when they can't provide ATC. They wanted to go to FISO provision but all the resident commercial training schools kicked up a fuss that they wouldn't be able to do their training instrument approaches, so ATC was retained.
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By zhastaph
#1719178
I go to Shoreham quite often, typically for lunch with the wife. It's a nice facility, the restaurant there is really good and the flight along the coast is pretty.

What attracts me most is actually the full ATC, which I find really good for keeping your radio sharp in a very g.a. friendly environment.

Yep, the landing fee is high compared to other airfields, but it'll've cost me £100 in fuel to get there and back, lunch is going to set you back £30 or £40, would knocking a tenner off the landing fee make any real difference to the overall cost of the experience ... not really.

I find it frustrating that we're happy to pay so much to own and run our flying machines; we moan that airfields are closing up and down the country around us, or shutting us out to biz jets; and then we stubbornly boycott anywhere that dares to charge more than 10 quid for a landing fee. It really makes no sense :(
#1719183
zhastaph wrote:
Yep, the landing fee is high compared to other airfields, but it'll've cost me £100 in fuel to get there and back, lunch is going to set you back £30 or £40, would knocking a tenner off the landing fee make any real difference to the overall cost of the experience ... not really.

I find it frustrating that we're happy to pay so much to own and run our flying machines; we moan that airfields are closing up and down the country around us, or shutting us out to biz jets; and then we stubbornly boycott anywhere that dares to charge more than 10 quid for a landing fee. It really makes no sense :(


You obviously live in a different world...
Fuel in my machine costs me roughly £25 per hour at 100-105knots. Most places I go to the landing fee is £10-£12. Fenland being the exception at £5 or even better North Coates at £3 landing fee. Lunch, A Bacon and Egg sandwich usually costs around £4-£5...
If I had to pay your prices I definitely couldn't afford to fly! :D
mikeblyth liked this
#1719188
Quite. The difference between £10 and £35 is £25. If I were to fly somewhere every weekend day in a month, and thus make 8 or 9 landings, let's say 8, that's an extra £200 a month - or around 10% of my take-home pay. That's not sustainable for me. I don't boycott Shoreham, I just usually choose to go elsewhere.

I will certainly try and make this fly-in. Shoreham is the ancestral home of my aeroplane though it was built in Prestwick. :D
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By zhastaph
#1719191
Shoestring Flyer wrote:You obviously live in a different world...

Most places I go to the landing fee is £10-£12. Fenland being the exception at £5 or even better North Coates at £3 landing fee.


Perhaps I do, but I also run a business so do see the other side of the story.

Make no mistake, airfields are businesses that cost money to own, run and maintain. Worse they're fair weather businesses and so only bring in money when the weather is nice, in the summer months and typically only Thursday to Sunday.

We're often lucky enough that these airfields are manned by volunteers who take time out to work the radio and tend to the grass, but what happens when these volunteers are tired of volunteering and need to be replaced by people wanting to draw a wage. What happens when the owners are tired of owning something that is costing them money and decide they'd rather stick a housing estate on it :(
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By defcribed
#1719205
And again raising the point that on weekends with VFR weather Shoreham is already very busy. What incentive is there to lower the landing fee?

There is an argument to be made for lower landing fees during the week.

Ideally one would like to manage and smooth traffic levels by pricing according to the prevailing weather (CAVOK = £35, SCT025 = £25, BKN015 = £10) but the inevitable howling about incentivising people to fly in poor weather is so obvious that it's hardly worth suggesting the idea.
#1719212
Let's not forget that the airfields which charge reasonable landing fees [ and I sincerely hope no Americans are reading this ] don't charge 'reasonable' landing fees just because they've been bludgeoned into doing so . One assumes that they pitch their fees at a rate commensurate with their facilities .

The reason I have given SHM a very wide berth for the last 7yrs is simply because they put their landing fees through the roof . Prior to that , I've bought fuel there lots of times and also used the eating area lots of times . But I don't need instrument approaches thank you , or anything else other than a simple landing/departure brief .

zhastaph wrote: they're fair weather businesses and so only bring in money when the weather is nice, :(


Probably not true in SHM's case . There are plenty of businesses around the perimeter , the flying schools can utilise such times for ground theory/exams / flight sim exercises etc and the restaurant certainly is busy . Come rain or shine .
Same with C/Abbass , the eating area is usually heaving . Mostly with regulars who have driven in from the local area .

But anyway . Let's stop bickering .. :D . Why not instead , celebrate that a breath of fresh air could now be commencing at one of Britains oldest and most historic airfields . Let's all try and think positive and help give Shoreham the break it deserves . :thumright:
By TopCat
#1719217
zhastaph wrote:Make no mistake, airfields are businesses that cost money to own, run and maintain. Worse they're fair weather businesses and so only bring in money when the weather is nice, in the summer months and typically only Thursday to Sunday.

Of course. But 33 quid for a landing is much higher than pretty much everywhere else other than airports that take CAT . Admittedly Biggin is higher, and Shoreham does offer instrument approaches.

But they don't also offer a discount when it's A/G only.

I like Shoreham, and I visit at least twice a year as my aircraft is maintained there, in which context the landing fee is only a small proportion of the much more astronomical total, but I can understand why people see 33 quid as a bit steep.

I'd certainly visit more often if it was 15-20 quid. I can't see it ever going down to £10 permanently.
#1719283
@Chris Martyr
The businesses that trade on the airfield at Shoreham do not pay rent etc to the operators of the airfield itself. The airfield operators are dependent on fuel sales, hangarage, parking, landing fees, car parking charges and some income from renting space in the terminal building. All other income from property goes to Albemarle Shoreham Airport Ltd (in administration), who are not the operators of the airport.
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By Lefty
#1719286
Why oh why are people still complaining when Shoreham have taken the first steps towards reducing their fees ?

There seems to be no way to please some people.

Shoreham is expensive for those on a limited budget, but i still go there 3-4 times per year as it is a lovely place to visit - and the restaurant is extremely good. In fact a gem amongst airfield restaurants.

However, as someone else posted, it is already pretty busy on an average sunny weekend, and I fear that they will be packed to the rafters on 19 October.

The Restaurant is always packed with “non flyers”, and I only hope that they have the good sense and forethought to either offer a priority ordering and table reservation to fly-in Pilots - or to limit the number of reservations they accept from non Flyin customers?
Edit on 19 Oct, we are unlikely to be sitting on the terrace.
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