Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By patowalker
#1718490
Agreed. Intra-Schengen you do not have to arrive at or depart from a French Customs airfield. The suspension only means that Customs, Police or Sanitary Authorities can turn up to check you if they want to.
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By skydriller
#1718494
Pilot Pete wrote:Now, that's confusing.

No it isnt.
Pilot Pete wrote:Scenario 2
France suspends Schengen.
I must depart France from a designated Immigration field, and comply if necessary with PNR. I can still land at a strip in Spain as they are still Shengen.
Then I must reverse this for the return journey.

No. You dont. You do what you have always done - file a flight plan.
If they want to see you they will pitch up and see you. Its not your business to tell them.

Its no different than when I take my play car to the pyrenees for kicks and cross the border on a little mountain road. If they want to stop me they will. They dont know Im taking the trip but they have the right to block the road and ask me for my passport etc as if it were a border outside Shengen. As I said above, some airports with many extra-Shengen flights have a banket-policy to inform customs/immigration of ALL foreign bound flights - eg Avignon referred to above last year, but that is an airport thing, not the law...

Last month the AF Copenhagen-CDG flight I was on was met by les Douanes and it was like the Spanish inquisition.... yet I have recently flown to/from France to Belgium to/from small aerodromes and no-one cares as long as you file, open, then close, your flight plan. (insert gallic shrug smiley)

So you can fly to/from any aerodrome in France/Italy without doing anything but filing a flight plan.

Regards, SD..
By Gwynge
#1718499
Paul_Sengupta wrote:From what I read above...

Gwynge wrote:So looks to me like you can use any aerodrome and it's up to the authorities to police the aerodromes when temporary controls are introduced - i.e. no impact on the flyer


Seems like you just carry on as before and they'll come and see you if they want to. Like the UK border force and the GAR.


That was my plan. Unfortunately Matthew_w100 likes to find things to worry about,,,, :D
By BehyBill
#1718573
I am not sure when Schengen was suspended did people had to use port of entry between France and Belgium? In that case I think everybody skipped load of them :D

All I heard at the time is to bring passports and to expect checks by police, military or firemans :roll: , some pilots got even checked at Toussus for "local flight" to Nantes...

The suspension affected mainly CAT travel and travel by car but some airports had it Notamed, some did not, so as only AIP/Notams matters you can "just fly"?
By patowalker
#1718597
In his predidential campaign Macron made a big thing about ending the state of emergency declared by Hollande after the terrorist attacks of 2015. He then promptly replaced it with an anti-terrorist law, which resulted in the situation remaining virually unchanged. :)
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By akg1486
#1718599
skydriller wrote:The General rule is that inside Shengen, Flight plan required to cross border and no immigration or customs - Except Switzerland where you need to clear customs only.

And Norway: also in Schengen but not in the EU. Norway being a part of Schengen was a prerequisite for Denmark, Sweden and Finland to sign: there's been free movement without passports for a long time. Flying international to/from an uncontrolled airfield in Norway is easy: send an email with your flight plan four hours in advance to desken (at) toll (dot) no. The customs officer can then decide if they want to come out to have a look. (Spoiler: they don't.)

Technically, the border between Denmark and Sweden suspended Schengen "temporarily" in 2015 during the peak of the migration wave. People commuting by train from Malmö to Copenhagen had to show their passport. The controls have now been reduced and are done at random, but the suspension is still in effect. At no time have there been any restrictions in flying between uncontrolled airfields and strips in the two countries, only the regular ATS FPL filed an hour in advance.

Last time I flew international to an uncontrolled airfield in France was in 2016. No issues then.
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By davef77
#1718612
GrahamB wrote:Substitute Hungary and Belgium for Austria and Czech Republic and I did that trip in reverse a couple of months ago. No formalités required other than flight plans once inside the Schengen Region


Sometimes not even that!

EVERY local pilot that I spoke to in Germany and the Czech Republic, on my recent trip told me that flight plans weren't necessary to cross between the two.

We filed them anyway.
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By skydriller
#1718614
BehyBill wrote:The suspension affected mainly CAT travel and travel by car but some airports had it Notamed, some did not, so as only AIP/Notams matters you can "just fly"?


Yes.
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By patowalker
#1718712
You didn't ask for info on Italy, but this guide might be of interest. A bit like a tourist brochure, but with some useful info. https://www.avioportolano.it/en/downloa ... t-eng.html

For German and Czech Republic airport info, I google 'airport' or 'flugplatz' or 'letiste' + the name or icao code, in the hope of finding something in English. There is a lot out there, and you soon learn to identify click-bait.
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By akg1486
#1718766
davef77 wrote:EVERY local pilot that I spoke to in Germany and the Czech Republic, on my recent trip told me that flight plans weren't necessary to cross between the two.

We filed them anyway.

And why wouldn’t you? With a flight plan someone will look for you if the worst happens. Lots of wilderness and mountains between Germany and Czechia. And in some (not all) cases the ATC will know who you are when you call. That saves both pilot and ATC some time.
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