Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
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By matthew_w100
#1718401
With friends, I'm planning a European trip - UK - France - Italy - Slovenia - Austria - Czech - Germany - France.

I'm struggling to work out if, having cleared into Schengen at Calais, one can then travel freely and NOT have to use designated airfields to enter each of the other countries.

For example, the French AIP GEN1.2.1 says "All aircraft arriving from abroad and entering the French territory should perform the first landing on an airport provided with Customs, Police and Sanitary controls. Also, all aircraft leaving the French territory abroad should have their last stop in the French territory on such type of airport." making no mention that I can see of this not applying if the departure airfield is in Schengen. I can't find the German or the Italian AIPs online but I suspect they are similar.

But other sites, not authoritative, like this one - https://www.flying-revue.com/flying-france - suggest that flight within Schengen is unfettered.

Does anyone know?
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1718417
Sometime in the past couple of years, the French suspended Schengen. Don't know if they've reinstated it yet.

Interpretation seems to vary.

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1697273#p1697273

And your post.... ( ;-) )

https://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=1697085#p1697085

Ah. See here:

https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/what-we-do/policies/borders-and-visas/schengen/reintroduction-border-control_en
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By GrahamB
#1718445
Substitute Hungary and Belgium for Austria and Czech Republic and I did that trip in reverse a couple of months ago. No formalités required other than flight plans once inside the Schengen Region

JFDI.
By johnm
#1718458
After various terrorist attacks the French declared a state of emergency and that allowed them to limit Schengen, I'm not aware of that being the case elsewhere and I'm not up to date on the French situation as I haven't needed to check lately. However the reference quoted above should be definitive IIRC
By Gwynge
#1718460
patowalker wrote:The current regulations covering entry and exit through French aerodromes are detailed here.


Article 9 in that says
"Aerodromes which do not have the status of a border crossing point are authorized to receive direct flights from or to Schengen countries, without any formality related to border control of persons being required, without prejudice to the provisions set out in Chapter III of this Order.
However, when internal border controls are temporarily reintroduced in application of the Schengen Borders Code, border controls may be carried out at these aerodromes by the designated services in accordance with the arrangements laid down in Article 3."

So looks to me like you can use any aerodrome and it's up to the authorities to police the aerodromes when temporary controls are introduced - i.e. no impact on the flyer
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By Iceman
#1718462
Remember that every flight still requires a flight plan when crossing an international FIR boundary.

And do remember to close each flight plan on landing (derekf :wink:).

Iceman 8)
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By johnm
#1718464
Iceman wrote:Remember that every flight still requires a flight plan when crossing an international FIR boundary.

Iceman 8)


Yes I still remember with pleasure taking of from Lognes near Paris for Basle

G ABCD I have no flight plan for you , Lognes Tower

Basle is in France G CD

Pregnant pause

G CD Taxi blah blah blah, cleared take off
:D :D :D
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By Pilot Pete
#1718465
Landing in Grenoble, last week, the FBO definitively explained that they have slightly more GA traffic due to the suspension of Schengen in France.
I don't 100% know if he's correct, (my research agreed) but having dropped in and out of France on that trip, we were checked fully both ways.
Fortunately using customs fields in France wasn't a huge inconvenience on our routing, but some of the 'before 16:00 on a weekday' for Customs PNR
can be a gottcha.
Last edited by Pilot Pete on Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
By patowalker
#1718466
Iceman wrote:Remember that every flight still requires a flight plan when crossing an international FIR boundary.


Not necessarily. For example, no FPL required between Czech Republic and Germany and Germany and Austria, either way.
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By skydriller
#1718474
The General rule is that inside Shengen, Flight plan required to cross border and no immigration or customs - Except Switzerland where you need to clear customs only. If flying to/from a country outside Shengen to one in the Shengen area then you need to clear customs & immigration at both ends.

WRT the countries suspending Shengen - EG France, Denmark and others: All this means is that they now have the right to stop you at the border of their country if they wish to do so, you no longer have "right of free passage". You dont have to do anything different, it is up to that countries authorities to decide to meet and stop you or not.

SOME airports across Europe have their own extra rules concerning filling in forms - Avignon is one - where they wish to stay on the right side of the local customs/immigration officers "Gallic Shrug"....

Regards, SD..
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1718482
skydriller wrote:If flying to/from a country outside Schengen to one in the Schengen area then you need to clear customs & immigration at both ends.


If it's intra-EU then immigration only, no customs, I would have thought. Though it'g generally referred to as "Customs" on various bits of info....
By Pilot Pete
#1718487
skydriller wrote:WRT the countries suspending Shengen - EG France, Denmark and others: All this means is that they now have the right to stop you at the border of their country if they wish to do so, you no longer have "right of free passage". You dont have to do anything different, it is up to that countries authorities to decide to meet and stop you or not.

Regards, SD..


Now, that's confusing.

How will they know to come and meet you without you arranging it or having to choose a 24hr immigration airport

Correct me please, so we all know for sure.......
Scenario 1
Everyone is Schengen
I fly from a strip in France to a strip in Spain.
All good, no-one cares.
Same for the return journey.

Scenario 2
France suspends Schengen.
I must depart France from a designated Immigration field, and comply if necessary with PNR. I can still land at a strip in Spain as they are still Shengen.
Then I must reverse this for the return journey.

That to me, is doing something different,
is it not?
Please let's resolve this, as it's the third time I've ridden this merry-go-round and ended up at the above information.
Hence using Cannes for departure to Italy and Troyes on arrival from Venice. :roll: :D
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By Paul_Sengupta
#1718488
From what I read above...

Gwynge wrote:So looks to me like you can use any aerodrome and it's up to the authorities to police the aerodromes when temporary controls are introduced - i.e. no impact on the flyer


Seems like you just carry on as before and they'll come and see you if they want to. Like the UK border force and the GAR.

Last time I drove across the Belgium/French border, they were diverting cars off the motorway for checks.