Primarily for general aviation discussion, but other aviation topics are also welcome.
By Stu B
#1733920
I think probably you should file a report, to do that as a courtesy you should call them first, and to do that as a courtesy you should let them be aware that you want the current situation, not what might be available after the staff on shift at the time have gone home?
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By PaulB
#1733924
Given the reported issues with Bristol especially, but also other places, have any magazines investigated what the issues might be?
By rdfb
#1733925
The report would be simply to say that you were denied airspace access. If ATC just denied you airspace access, then there isn't any contention about what just happened, so is such a courtesy really necessary?

I think it would be better for all of us if these events were just logged routinely by ATC as a matter of course. I don't think any additional courtesy is required just because this admin is done in a roundabout way. I think your "courtesy" may be taken by some to imply "well I'm retaliating then" even if that's not what was intended. As a courtesy, I don't think it's worth risking the message to be taken that way so it's better not to say it.

I think the most courteous way do deal with a denial is simply to say "Roger, remaining outside", to avoid saying anything that might be taken negatively and to then file the report later as a matter of course. I don't think the individual details matter; only an observation of difference in refusal volumes will ever prompt any change.
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By Henry
#1733936
If there’s a general feeling that they’re being unhelpful, why not ask them why? Find out who runs that side of things there, get in touch (from the ground) and ask, courteously, what the problem is? Rather than sounding off on here, or filing complaints. You’ll end up better informed, perhaps even surprised, and it might even lead to greater mutual understanding or some other positive outcome. It’s amazing what proper communication can achieve...
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By PaulB
#1734008
Henry wrote:If there’s a general feeling that they’re being unhelpful, why not ask them why? Find out who runs that side of things there, get in touch (from the ground) and ask, courteously, what the problem is? Rather than sounding off on here, or filing complaints. You’ll end up better informed, perhaps even surprised, and it might even lead to greater mutual understanding or some other positive outcome. It’s amazing what proper communication can achieve...


Everyone who does so will be better informed but the rest of us will remain in blissful ignorance, which is why I wondered whether a magazine could investigate the issue of CAS transits generally as there seems to be variable practice between different units.
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By mick w
#1734045
Bert Presley wrote:Here you go. Don't know about the Bristol one though.
Image
Sorry. I just can't help it.


Just because it has a Luton Body ,doesn't neccessarily mean it's a Transit . :wink:
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By kanga
#1734449
cockney steve wrote:Bristol make exquisite hand-built sporting -cars. they do not lower themselves to produce mere commercial-vehicle-bodies.

...


:)

.. but they did also make commercial vehicles, especially 'buses ..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_C ... l_Vehicles

.. and commercial vehicle chassis for others to top with their own bodies, eg:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... HU6618.jpg
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By TC_LTN
#1734456
The latest re-invigoration of this threat started with somebody stating how they had been given transit clearance upon request from Bristol yet quickly generated comments about how to report refusals and speculation about what to do next time a refusal was received. It made me think that perhaps Bristol ATC had taken comments, earlier in the year, on board and are trying really hard to ensure they accommodate zone transit requests whenever possible?
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By PaulB
#1734461
TC_LTN wrote:The latest re-invigoration of this threat started with somebody stating how they had been given transit clearance upon request from Bristol yet quickly generated comments about how to report refusals and speculation about what to do next time a refusal was received. It made me think that perhaps Bristol ATC had taken comments, earlier in the year, on board and are trying really hard to ensure they accommodate zone transit requests whenever possible?


Surely one person saying that they got a transit isn't evidence of that?
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By TC_LTN
#1734473
PaulB wrote:
Surely one person saying that they got a transit isn't evidence of that?


No, but an absence of reports of refusal, over the past few months, may be indicative?
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By James Chan
#1734486
Well I don’t know if they’ve had no reports.

But yes sometimes, no news is good news. :thumleft:
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By PaulB
#1734494
TC_LTN wrote:
PaulB wrote:
Surely one person saying that they got a transit isn't evidence of that?


No, but an absence of reports of refusal, over the past few months, may be indicative?


People may have given up trying.... have to admit that I’ve had transits from Brizzle in the past and they were very helpful, but after reading reports of a few months ago, I probably wouldn’t have bothered trying if I’d been down that way.